What's it worth?

[KeithZ1R]

Purely out of curiosity what is the procedure if say, its had a new pair of cases fitted at some point, and by new I mean brand new. Did bare cases supplied by dealers from the factory come complete with new numbers or was it the responsibility of the dealer to transfer numbers, what happened if the dealer just supplied bare cases for a home rebuild situation does it become the responsibility of the mechanic doing the rebuild, I notice all the sharp intakes of breath and oooo that looks dodgy....well maybe there is a simple and innocent reasonable explanation. just my opinion you understand ! others will be along presently

[Coose]

I hate to say it but those have had the number welded over and ground back. You can see the beads of weld.....

[Garry.L]

Purely out of curiosity what is the procedure if say, its had a new pair of cases fitted at some point, and by new I mean brand new. Did bare cases supplied by dealers from the factory come complete with new numbers or was it the responsibility of the dealer to transfer numbers)

Back in the day a mate had a dealer warranty frame swap on a RD250 (cracked headstock). The Dealer re-Stamped the new frame with the original numbers.

[Andrew_s]

Back in the day a mate had a dealer warranty frame swap on a RD250 (cracked headstock). The Dealer re-Stamped the new frame with the original numbers.

Yep, 'decking' is not illegal providing it's done correctly with an evidence trail acceptable to the DVLA (best to speak with them) - trouble is there are too many dodgy characters out there doing it to convert an import into a UK bike (or car) which was once a basket case or worse still just a V5.

[freddyz1r]

Purely out of curiosity what is the procedure if say, its had a new pair of cases fitted at some point, and by new I mean brand new. Did bare cases supplied by dealers from the factory come complete with new numbers or was it the responsibility of the dealer to transfer numbers, what happened if the dealer just supplied bare cases for a home rebuild situation does it become the responsibility of the mechanic doing the rebuild

Don't know about kawasaki policy.....
I've only ever had 'new' from a dealer on a car (ford) and they stamped the number.
when they supplied new shells /chassis (for escort) they definitely came 'bare', if you were rallying them it didn't matter, if you wanted it 'on the road' the dealer would stamp it for you at your request - that was in the early to mid eighties.
You can still buy new aftermarket casings for other bikes - but they also come with numbers.

[shep65]

I hate to say it but those have had the number welded over and ground back. You can see the beads of weld.....

Looking closer I think you may be right, why, where and when I don't know but generally speaking it's not something you would do unless you're trying to hide something I guess?

I doubt I'll try and 'falsify' some kind of number, time for a think I suppose.

Thanks again for all the opinions.

[Fred the Zed]

Didn't some manufacturers supply race teams with unstamped engines and frames? Either way it would be interesting to see if KHI had a complete set of crankcases in its parts list. If so, that might be a completely innocent explanation.

In fairness, although I'd think twice about buying a bike with missing numbers, most who've powdercoated frames end up obliterating the frame number anyway. A missing engine number might be more difficult to explain though.

Fred

[shep65]

Oh well, there could be worse bikes to be stuck with I suppose

[freddyz1r]

most who've powdercoated frames end up obliterating the frame number anyway.
Fred

Unless I'm in the minority, I think you're wrong. All my powder coated frames have legible numbers. You just inform the powder coater you want to be able read them after he's done.
cheers freddy

[Coose]

I hate to say it but those have had the number welded over and ground back. You can see the beads of weld.....

Looking closer I think you may be right, why, where and when I don't know but generally speaking it's not something you would do unless you're trying to hide something I guess?

I doubt I'll try and 'falsify' some kind of number, time for a think I suppose.

Thanks again for all the opinions.

But, my view would be that if you're looking to sell there's nothing really to hide as you said the logbook states "Unknown" as the engine number. If it was reported I doubt the police or anyone would do a thing as (like you said) it's always been like that for as long as you've had it. Stolen-recovered bikes are allowed back on the road with similar engine numbers (not so the chassis number), so it would definitely devalue the bike and you'll get a load of grief from those "who know better" whilst trying to sell it, but I'm sure that someone who understands (or as above has a spare set of cases) would happily take it off your hands.
I certainly wouldn't stamp a random number on the cases as that's fraud, but if you had a set of scrap cases (as implied by others).....

[AD1]

Purely out of curiosity what is the procedure if say, its had a new pair of cases fitted at some point, and by new I mean brand new. Did bare cases supplied by dealers from the factory come complete with new numbers or was it the responsibility of the dealer to transfer numbers, what happened if the dealer just supplied bare cases for a home rebuild situation does it become the responsibility of the mechanic doing the rebuild

Don't know about kawasaki policy.....
I've only ever had 'new' from a dealer on a car (ford) and they stamped the number.
when they supplied new shells /chassis (for escort) they definitely came 'bare', if you were rallying them it didn't matter, if you wanted it 'on the road' the dealer would stamp it for you at your request - that was in the early to mid eighties.
You can still buy new aftermarket casings for other bikes - but they also come with numbers.

As an engraver we engrave quite a few replacement frames (and the odd engine case), particularly for BMW. For some reason the factory in Germany can't/won't do it so it's up to the dealer to use engravers like us.

[AL MARSHALL]

My Z1b has an engine that has never been stamped (replacement casing) definitely not been messed with. I used this engine to register my z1 about 10 years ago with no problem . Then I fitted the right engine a couple of years later and had dvla change the engine number on the log book. So un-numbered casings are out there. Have to say yours are definitely numbered casings with the numbers removed. Wouldn't bother me at all if I was to buy the bike ,looks stunning.

[weaver]

No engine number will certainly affect value or it should do anyway.First thing you should check on a potential purchase is numbers present and correct and match what is on the log book,put it on ebay and the market will decide its value.

[AL MARSHALL]

I agree , let the wisdom and majesty of ebay be the final arbiter of this question.

[davejames]

Aren't those A4 cases with the 3700cc capacity on them?