Dire problems with speedo on 1997 Police KZ1000p

[DocSteve]

Hi Guys, i am in a real mess which started as a snapper speedo drive cable on my 1997 Police model KZ1000-P. Tryin to repair it has crought me all kinds of grief, including changing the oil in the forks, which i hope have worked ok as i have not yet reached the extent of testing that yet. The issue I am having currently is refitting the front wheel.
The speedo sensor (mechanically driven from the lugs on the left side) turns with the wheel. I have attached a video hopefully to shows this, so it turns as the wheel turns and if i forcr the wheel forwards, the speedo sendsor would force past the pins and eventually wrap itesnf around the wheel instead of sitting in place and having the wheel rotate around it.
My question really is what should be rotating here - should the axle be rotating and as you see inthe video, the nuts at the emds of the axle turning or should they be fixed in place and some other internals rotating srounf bearing allowing the speedo drive to sit in one position.
The timing of this was very lucky as i was on my way back home from hacing successfully passing my MOT when the speedo cable must have snapped, and thereafter it wrapped around the front wheel until it literally ripped the speedo sender unit to smithereens, leaving a wobble front wheen held roughly in pl;ace by the calipeters keeping the brake disks within some tolerance.
Hopefully someone can give me some guidance on how to repair this mess befor i literally do kill myself when my next component self destruction is at 70mps and results in bike parts going in different directions!

Unfortunately this forum will not permit me to include a video but it can be seen on facebook, should you have such a thing on; https://www.facebook.com/groups/1713968452029187 or if there is another way to share it, please let me know, but I'm sure you get the just, where i imagine the speedo sender unit whould saty static and it's internal rown rotated by the lugs on the hub, it is like the hub is unable to move independent of the wheel. They are not joined however, just to cover al the bases, on taking it all apart again, i can see all parts move independently and the speedo can be driven by a drill etc.

Yours frustratingly.

[kz900B1]

It would appear your speedo drive casing isn't located correctly .I'm sure it should use the fork leg to hold it in place and the cable drive should come out parallel to the ground

[kz900B1]

https://twsimages.dk-server.co.uk/item553272-6.jpg

[DocSteve]

Thanks for that. I don’t suppose you have a video I’d what parts should be moving and what should not be moving in normal front wheel movement? Should nuts be rotating or foxed etc?

[kz900B1]

Hi . No the nuts should not be moving the clamps should hold the Sleeved part of the nuts still.
As mentioned earlier there should be a notch in the speedo drive which locates into the fork leg .
The only parts that should be moving are the front wheel and the internal gears for the speedo drive assembly .The 2 nuts on the lower fork legs should be holding the axel nuts in place on either side with the gap to the rear of the fork legs .Try loosely assembling it and ensure the speedo drive doesn't rotate before tightening it all up.

[DeadZedDave]

What kz900B1 said ….. ALSO DO NOT RIDE THE BIKE UNTILL THISI IS SORTED. (Danger / risk of accident)
Attached are a couple of pictures which might help.
However, reading what you have written in your post and looking at your pictures I’d recommend getting a second person involved to have a look at this - preferably someone experienced with old Zed’s (a second pair of eyes / other person looking is always good) As Kz900B1 says, it looks like the speedo drive is not locating correctly ALSO those spindle nuts MUST BE done up tight and clamped tight by the fork caps. BUT if there’s something not assembled right you might just be causing more problems. All of the parts must be assembled correctly / tightened in the correct sequence to avoid problems
Re: my attached pics. The RED arrow points to the crown/ top hat shaped part which is the “drive” for the speedo and this part rotates with the wheel. The blue arrow is an internal circlip which secures this part in place on the wheel. . THIS PART GOES AROUND WITH THE WHEEL. There is another part HIDDEN INSIDE the speedo drive gearbox / housing - (what the cable is fixed to on the left of the wheel) This hidden part is behind an oil seal and therefore can’t be seen but this part matches the two slots / cut outs you can see in my pics. of the crown/top hat bit - this hidden part ALSO rotates with the wheel. If for some reason the hidden part and the crown bit have been wrongly assembled then damage might be caused which can produce problems.
You say the speedo drive rotates without problems - you should be able, with the front wheel removed, to locate the speedo drive on the crown / top hat bit fixed to the wheel and rotate the drive gearbox by hand with the wheel held stationary - if the speedo drive won’t turn its SIEZED - this could be the cause of the problems
You say you changed the fork oil but don’t say why ? IF the reason was the forks “sticking” when you bounce the front suspension up and down then for sure I would say there’s an assembly issue or something else wrong.
I hope this makes sense / helps.

[DocSteve]

In reverse order, I changed the fork oil simply because it was an opportunity as I ha had the front end stripped in order to address this speedo drive unit replacement. There is no fault with the speedo sender unit or the tabs which slot into the speedo driver as these all fit together fine and I can get the speedo needle to move manually by holding the speedo driver in place on the hub tabs driving the speedo driver. It’s when I tighten the axle nuts, it seems to lock overything together and the speedo drive would pass the fork pegs if I let it (don’t want it damaging the pegs by allowing it to do do) and it spins the outside nuts, the 27mm nuts on both sides of the forks. I feel something is just not right or is binding up somewhere. If I loosen the axle end nuts marginally all is perfect, wheel turns, speedo drive stays where it should, speedo works, but when I torque the 27mm axle end nuts, it all turns together and would destroy the speedo driver if I let it run.

[DeadZedDave]

What happens if you assemble all the parts i.e. wheel - spindle - speedo drive R.H. side spacer and spindle nuts and tighten the nuts OFF the bike - i.e. not in the forks ?
Does the spindle / speedo drive assembly rotate freely ?
If its stiff / wont move I'm thinking - wheel bearing failure ?
Also is the internal spacer between the wheel bearings still in place - it should not be possible for this spacer to be displaced but worth a check.
Another thought - something I remember from way back - does it make any difference if you unscrew / remove the cable. It sounds daft but I have a recollection of a "bad cable" which somehow caused the drive unit to lock up - although when its ok with the loose spindle nuts it should rule this out it's an easy thing to check / rule out.
I'm assuming everything had been running fine before the cable snapped - how many miles has the bike done / have you done on it ?

[DocSteve]

I intend to do that today. I’m going to strip it all back to its components, clean and degrease a and see if anything is wrong according to your collective invaluable advice above. I will also need the advice of having a second person review the setup if there is anyone in the paisley (near glasgow) area, but this is tricky as the bike is immobile, for obvious reasons and to be honest some of the claimed experts I’ve come across in this area previously are cowboys to day the least, some costing me money to get back to the state the bike was in before they laid their expert hands on my bike! So I may need to rely on photos to the group. On that point is there a way I can get videos posted to let you see. In theory this should be an easy one - the fork lower outers are new, the speedo driver is new, the cable is new, the wheel bearings are new, the spacer inside the wheel is not new but was cleaned to new condition and doesn’t so much as a nick in it, so I’m a bit lost, no doubt by something obvious right in front of me, but the oddest part is that it was riding and working fine and passed its MOT last month, until the MOT chap decided to nip up the 27mm bolt on the right (non-speedo side) just outside the spacer and then 100 yards later it was carnage. Luckily I was in town doing 25-30 and therefore the brake discs in the calipers held everything in line until a safe stop after the speedo drive shattered.

[moizeau]

Have you got a kwak workshop manual? If not use the cmsnl site for the parts drawings which you can work out if you have all the bits in the right order, it's useful but by no means a replacement for the manual.
https://images.cmsnl.com/img/partslists ... 7_c789.gif
https://www.cmsnl.com/kawasaki-kz1000p6 ... partslist/

[gray]

do you want me to look at it with you one day? I'm in Stirling.