Ignition loss

[steve452]

On the way to Poole Quay Bike Night last night the Z1-B decided to go bleurghhh at a set of lights in Poole (nearly 40 miles from home). I managed to get it into a side street to check and on cursory examination found a blown 10a fuse (I have the "Wired George" mod and it was the 10a fuse from the relay). Managed to get a replacement fuse but didn't solve the problem although it didn't blow again. I checked the plug on #4 but no spark. There's fuel coming out to the carbs OK, it turns over strongly on the starter and I have lights etc. A local resident saw me struggling and kindly let me store it in his garden overnight to keep it away from prying eyes. Can anyone suggest the likelihood that it's just the 4 pin relay that's failed and blown the fuse (maybe high and low voltage circuits in the relay have shorted together?) before I have to get it collected (at great cost!). I can pop down on the beast and replace the relay fairly quickly if it's the likely cause but cannot do extensive checking without getting it back to my place. Any obvious stuff I can eliminate straight off? I do have a digital multimeter. TIA.

[warren3200gt]

Sounds like the relay shorted directly to earth which blew the fuse.
That probably means the connectors inside the relay will likely have fused in the closed position. If that's the case once the fuse was replaced, if it didn't blow again immediately, the battery might have already fried.
Take a spare relay and battery with you if you have them.

[KeithZ1R]

if you cannot feel/hear the relay clicking when you turn on the ignition then the likelihood is the coil has burnt out so the contacts will not move to supply the ignition coils replace it hopefully that will solve your problem I would be curious to know why it did it in the first place... good luck

[moizeau]

If it has locked the relay closed, now the fuse has been changed may it have fried the coils?
Not answering your question but more putting one out there for others to comment on.

[gray]

the wired George mod melted my coils

[steve452]

Update:Apologies but I actually posted some duff info in my OP. As it was dark and I was knackered after a 4 mile walk carrying my bike gear to get to the nearest Halfords for a fuse (which I thought was the only issue) I thought the fuse was intact, hence suspecting the relay. I returned to the bike today to swap out the relay and discovered that the replacement fuse had in fact blown. I replaced the relay and attempted another start upon which it blew yet another fuse. As the kind chap who'd let me use his garden to store the bike overnight had to get back to work I didn't investigate further. The bike should be picked up on Friday and once I get it back home I can start a proper investigation, but I'm leaning toward a possible short somewhere or a failed reg/rec. The reg/rec was new and installed in 2020 during the original rebuilt. I hope it's not the coils as they're both genuine Dyna S.

[warren3200gt]

Well as every fuse you've put in has blown immediately the feed to the coils wouldn't be live so they should be fine.
Did it blow the fuse without turning on the ignition or did it blow as soon as you did?

[steve452]

Warren...I didn't manage to get that far having only one fuse left. I will try a more exhaustive approach over the weekend when I get it back home. Many thanks to all for all the advice so far. Watch this space!

[KeithZ1R]

for instantaneous fuse popping your looking for a live feed shorting to ground, however mebe its me but im unsure what the 10a fuse is doin i.e is it protecting the feed from the relay contacts to the coils or protecting the relay coil from the battery feed either way you have a short to ground

[warren3200gt]

for instantaneous fuse popping your looking for a live feed shorting to ground, however mebe its me but im unsure what the 10a fuse is doin i.e is it protecting the feed from the relay contacts to the coils or protecting the relay coil from the battery feed either way you have a short to ground

If it's been fitted correctly then it's between the battery + and the relay + in Keith so if the fuse is blowing the coils have no live feed once the fuse is blown.

[steve452]

I'm assuming it's been fitted correctly as I did it myself in 2021 and I've had no issue with it up to now. The 10A fuse is inline betyween the battery + terminal and pin 30 on the relay. Pin 87 on the relay supplies power to the coils. The 30/87 circuit in the relay is the high-voltage circuit. It's switched on by the low voltage circuit pins 85/86 between the start button and ground.

[Gray17]

How annoying to say the least, thank goodness for helpful neighbours! Just fitted same mod to mine, thats def correct way to fit, the fuse should be as near as possible to the battery feed, thereby protecting as much of the wiring and components as possible, as stated if blowing straight away it will probably be in the wiring between coils and relay which will probably be a new cable possibly unsleeved, hence blowing fuses. Would suggest remove fuel tank, disconect coils where they join to new cable from relay output and test that wire to ground. If ok check using a test lamp or multimeter, lamp should light when ignition on and ignition cut out in run position. The coil side only draws a very small current and unlikely to blow a 10a fuse, again you can test this by feeling if relay energises when ignition turned on and feeling the relay click, turning engine cut off should also energise and de energise coil.
Depends where your relay is fitted, i fitted mine directly abovebattery keeping feed as short as possible so fuse protecting as much as possible, also making it easy to access under seat. I ran 2 new cables from under tank to under seat position and wrapped them to give extra insulation, also tywrapped to existing harness to keep out of harms way.
My guess would be either a wiring short or 1 of your coils gone bad.
Hope you get it sorted.

[KeithZ1R]

I'm assuming it's been fitted correctly as I did it myself in 2021 and I've had no issue with it up to now. The 10A fuse is inline betyween the battery + terminal and pin 30 on the relay. Pin 87 on the relay supplies power to the coils. The 30/87 circuit in the relay is the high-voltage circuit. It's switched on by the low voltage circuit pins 85/86 between the start button and ground.

this is the way steve gonna guess the coil is shorting internally to the laminate which as you know is direct to the frame , so new coils it is then

IMG_3154.JPG (21.23 KiB) Viewed 265 times

good luck

[steve452]

Got the bike home Friday and today I did a quick visual inspection of the ignition wiring...no obvious breaks or chafing on the insulation. Took both coils off for a visual inspection and then tested. My multi-meter and test lead combo registers about 0.7Ω internal resistance. Coil 2/3 looks fine with around 3.6Ω resistance on the primary circuit (so about 3Ω as per spec) and around 19+kΩ between the two secondary outputs. Coil 1/4 however had about 0.9Ω resistance between the two primary contacts so I'm assuming it's shorted and that's what's blowing the fuse (the secondary read the same as coil 2/3). The coils are genuine Dyna S (marked 3.0 OHM 0820) which I believe are Dynatek part no. DC1-1 bought from Z-Power as a kit. They were first fired up in early 2021 and the bike has done about 3,500 miles since then. Is this a normal lifetime for a genuine coil on a Wired George circuit? The power feed from the relay (via the 10A fuse, which was the one that kept blowing) is common to both coils so I'm assuming there's nothing wrong there except that the primary circuit on coil 1/4 has shorted internally. Would this be a reasonable assumption? For info, the whole system is Dynatek including the breaker plate, although the wiring from the 4 pin relay and to the coil primary circuits I installed myself using Japanese bullet connectors.

[warren3200gt]

Dyna runs fine on oem black coils. Maybe swop them both back in and test run. If the fuse doesn't blow you have your confirmation.