Bike Z900 A4 not running correctly (FINALLY SORTED)

[moizeau]

Excellent news. I had my suspicions Rob was up for helping after he posted 'pm sent'.
Well done Rob and also well done you for getting as far as you did. It's also a sign of intelligence knowing your limitations.
I must be very intelligent as I have many limitations

[kev edwards]

I'm glad it's done, wood for the trees, been there.

[r3sc]

Great news, glad you got it sorted! Let’s hope for some more sunny days and you can enjoy the rest of the summer!

[warren3200gt]

Oh and Warren yes you did offer to help, and at the time said i was grateful and appreciated the offer not sure what else you were expecting.

Despite what you may think I too am glad it's finally sorted, no one wants to see a dead Z.

As to what I was expecting, in truth nothing, which is what happened.
My last response was in answer to a question about being offered help and pointing out it had been offered and had it been accepted would have put you in the position you are now in only several months earlier and would have saved you much frustration and probably thou's £'s. But hey, it's your bike, your time and £' s.

Ride safe and enjoy what's left of the summer

[gray]

Pleased for you. And thanks for posting the postmortem of the issues found , it will help all of us to keep our eyes open on our own pride and joys.

[Gray17]

Many thanks for the positive comments guys its much appreciated.
Going out for my First proper ride on bike to Seaways today, so offer stands come say Hello if youre around, Teas on me.
Yes think info shared helps others and may go some way towards helping them with there own similar issues.

2 final things to be aware of: the magnet on the cam pick up dropped out, stopping bike sparking. Fixed now but this was due to the poor quality of the item itself. It will as Rob suggested get changed for a proper one asap!

I filled up for the very first time with Shell Vpower fuel the other day, now I have filled several times with both E5 and E10 splashes have fell on tank before with no issues, this time its blistered paint on top of tank, so badly the paint has stripped all the way down to bare metal?, has anyone else had this?, i'm gutted!, think bike having its final tantrum!!!
But it wont stop me enjoying the bike today, but do need to get it sorted as its unsightly, had thought of a preserve nature, helmet sticker to cover it. I have touched it up temp as didnt want tank to start rusting (see photo) just making you aware as would hate it to happen to your pride and joys too!

[kev edwards]

That's a bugger I always carry tissue with me for such events, modern fuel and paints are all nasty and not fit for purpose, bring back good old cellulose paints and leaded fuel.

[Gray17]

To be honest Kev, Tank was painted about 8 months ago so well and truly hardened, it was well lacquered by Shaun Dewis who did a fantastic job on tank and panels, plus he does this all the time so cant believe its a paint fault.
I have filled up at least 6 times used both E5 and E10, occasionally splashes occur, or as in this case dregs left in nozzle from prev user spills out as you put into your tank, but as bike canted over on lazy stand it usually runs off instantly or evaporates, this time it only touched the area for seconds before running off, i got some paper towel and wiped it, but it had already started to blister, by time i got home chunks of paint lifted off almost like stretchy rubber rather then paint, almost like if you pour nitromose stripper on paint, luckily its localised but still unsightly. Im wondering if theres something in Shell Vpower that makes it react that way? Or a fault with this batch of the fuel itself?
As you say bring back leaded!

[kev edwards]

Not painter's fault, paints are being produced to appease the green agenda just like the fuels, so now we have poor quality paints and fuels.

[Gray17]

Hi Kev, yes well aware of those facts, and thats fair enough but thats not the issue or point i was trying to make. If this has happened before which it has and never effected the tank top area, why did Shell Vpower unleaded do so on this occasion when others fuels previously haven't?
Now i have no idea what Shell add to normal unleaded fuel to make it into Vpower, however i suspect whatever that additive is, is what reacted with my paint rather then other fuels which havn't, it may be too much additive was in this batch? But have taken a sample which they can test.
At the end of the day if the fuel their selling can damage paint, then i say its unfit for purpose, as everthing you fill up with fuel potentially could be damaged. Theres a very fine line legally if damaged is caused by others to your vehicle in this case paint, 'criminal damage'
In court they would have to prove their fuel is unharmful to modern paint or put notices up warning users of the potential consequences of using their fuel, neither exists at present, but any court case would highlight this, can you imagine the consequences of bad publicity to their sales this would generate? Do you believe they would take the risk?
Personally i will never use Shell fuel again, others can make their own mind up.

[warren3200gt]

All fuels react with different clear lacquers in different ways. Premium grades are no different in this respect.
First you need to know what type of laquer Shaun used.
1k laquer, which is a solvent based laquer, not dissimilar to the old cellulose but definately NOT cellulose. Cellulose is fuel PROOF. Solvent is fuel resistant, but not very.
Greenies have killed cellulose as a paint base and no paint is now cellulose based.
2k laquer is a solvent based laquer which uses a seperate hardener to modify the chemical structure of the solvent and cures to a better fuel resistance but again NOT 100% fuel proof. When exposed to fuel 2k will discolour but not blister.
2k solvent is highly dangerous and poisonous if absorbed through skin or breathed in and should only be used in a properly clean air supplied and vented booth with the operator fully equipped with the relevant protective equipement and clothing/masks.
Modern legislation has killed the use of an easy solution.
However one does exist, once you get your nice shiny paint back from the painters either use a ceramic coating wax on it every 6 months or get it professionally ceramic coated which will last around 10 years when subjected to direct sunlight so for a bike used for a few hours per week then tucked away will likely outlast both you and the bike.
A ceramic Pro ceramic coating is fuel PROOF.

[Gray17]

Thats good information Warren you clearly know your stuff, unfortunately not everyone does, the average Joe inc me goes into a garage to fill up with fuel, does not expect to have their paintwork damaged by unavoidable splashes of fuel.
If its that corrosive they should have warnings on the forecourt stating such. The same way you do for Acid, Thinners, Brake fluid etc, these all have warnings to avoid paintwork, fuel does not and really should to make people aware. As i said prob reason it doesn't they dont want to effect their sales.
The big issue i have is why after several fill ups at other garages with similar fuel, did the Vpower react this way when the others did not? After all regardless the tank paint hasnt changed.
As stated i suspect its an additive in it perhaps octane booster that caused the reaction immediately even though it evaporated off quickly. Even Brake fluid doesnt react that quickly to paint.
Anyway its done now, annoying as it is, i've reported it they may appologise or offer damage cost prob not!
After all i bought fuel to run vehicle, not paint stripper, acid etc which you can expect to cause damage.
Others may disagree, but as i said wont ever use Shell Vpower again.

[kev edwards]

There is nothing different in v power, all companies get fuel from the same terminals, there may just be a tiny bit more of pba, piba and pea, these are detergents, the V power bit is just a marketing gimmick, as said before paints are crap and you spilt fuel over your tank and failed to clean it off immediately, it seems you are only reading a fraction of replies to your questions and are becoming blinkered and tend to have a knee jerk reaction, it seems this has been the case through this whole saga. Still it's all done and dealt with now, enjoy the ride, it's what they were built for.

[Gray17]

Sorry Kev, it seems youre not reading the full answers either or perhaps just not mine.
Firstly i have filled up several times before with both E5 and E10 fuel,at various locations, splashes have landed on the tank before and had no reaction to it.
You seem to be saying i'm at fault, how exactly am i at fault, the nozzles are in their holders upright, until you lower it to place in your tank theres no way to know if theres any fuel still in there, as soon as it splashed most ran off onto the floor. I wiped remainder off, were talking seconds with paper, finished filling and went in to pay, when i came back there were tiny blisters around filler which turned into big chunks of paint flaking off later. If thats the case the previous users at fault, or the garage for not providing drains to the nozzles to clear any excess fual before the next user.
So At that Belton garage with that particular batch of Shell vpowe it did, it was cleaned off immediately most of it ran off already anyway as was on lazy stand, have you not read this?
Now without specifically analysing it yourself theres no way to determine exactly what chemicals are in that particular batch or whether it was a bad batch, that caused this, ir even something in the storage tank etc.
As far as im concerned it shouldn't have happened and if its possible could there should have been warning notices displayed to that effect to warn users of those consequences.
I'm sure if youd spent hundreds of £s having a brand new tank refusbished youd feel exactly the same too as would anyone and may then have a different stance.

I passed this info on to warn others of the possible consequences, not to enter into a debate about it. What I've noticed about the forum is most are very helpful, whilst others seem to do nothing but criticise.
Yes we cant all be expert's, and we all have to start somewhere, hence why we join forums to share expertise among its members, perhaps some need to remember that.

[warren3200gt]

Without getting into argument I'm still interested to know what Shaun used to paint your parts.
I suspect that due to it being a classic bike he'll have used as close to original paints that are available, i.e 1k which to be fair to Shaun
is the correct thing to do to maintain both "originality" and colour match.
Shell aren't going to give two hoots about your complaints as 99.999999% of their customers will be putting their fuels into modern vehicles painted with modern water based paints which are not affected in the same way that solvent based paints are.
As classics are by a huge margin the minority it falls to the owners of classics to be aware of the possible issues of use of modern fuels in there classic vehicles.
Petrol has always been classified as a corrosive substance its upto the customer to treat it as such.
Lastly, don't fully fill your tank as the filler cap seal is not a total seal and hard acceleration, braking and leaning whilst cornering or on the side stand may allow some fuel to slosh out. Its for that reason, even with cellulose paints back in the 60'/70''s the top of the filler hole on the tank was bare un painted metal in an effort to stop fuel seeping under the paint and then wicking to a visible part of the tank and lifting the paint.