Z1OwnersClub GB

I’ve had a few Z1 engines that Steve has cleaned
in his bull-mill rolling process over the years. I’ve always spent days searching for any signs of those pesky Steel & Ceramic ball
to make sure nothing was left inside the engine.
Just had. Z1000-A1 done and just found dozens of
tiny ceramic balls jammed in around all the Inlet valve guides
inside the combustion chamber between the guide and casting.
Christ knows how I’m going to get them out as tgey are jammed in and about 0.5mm in dia.
Morale of this story is check everywhere.

Good advise. I wonder how many have rebuilt engines with blast media in the journals, threads etc

Will they blow out with compressed air?

ZedHead wrote:Good advise. I wonder how many have rebuilt engines with blast media in the journals, threads etc

My 900 had the right cross journal blocked with silicon from blasting when I got it. Resulting in no oil to no 4 exhaust valve bucket etc. The engine had been rebuilt by a reputable builder after media cleaning apparently! It took more than my brain to discover the issue of the weird ticking coming from the front right area!

Cant say this surprises me,seen it too many times meself and the damage as a result..

ZedHead wrote:Good advise. I wonder how many have rebuilt engines with blast media in the journals, threads etc

Will they blow out with compressed air?

Nope. They are well and truly embedded. I’ve tried
0.5mm dia St St rod and shifted some but a surprising amount stuck in each crevace. I’m going to try localised heating to see if I can expand the head relative to the cast iron guide (Z1000-A1) and see if I can fish them out. Failing that I may have these guides replaced.

I've got exactly the same issue after a recent engine clean by Steve. See attached photo. I have flattened the end of a needle with a sanding drum on a dremel and spent an hour or more picking them out but the ones shown in the photo just wont shift. I really don't want to start replacing valve guides as I didn't spot this at first and have now had seats cut, valves re-faced and lapped in and the existing guides are still good.

I'm thinking though, that there must have been dozens, if not hundreds of other heads done like this by Steve that didn't subsequently have the valve guides replaced so I'm wondering how much of an issue this is? If it was ceramic debris in an oil feed to a bearing then that would be disastrous but if one or two of these did break loose and get sucked into the combustion chamber, would they just get blown out of the exhaust? ...........or would they wreak havoc with my fresh bores and new piston rings? Opinions welcomed!

Blackseven wrote:
I'm thinking though, if one or two of these did break loose and get sucked into the combustion chamber, would they just get blown out of the exhaust? ...........or would they wreak havoc with my fresh bores and new piston rings? Opinions welcomed!

If they are ceramic it's pot luck whether they do any damage or not and with them being so tiny and in small numbers they will probably get destroyed on the way through and any bore damage would be microscopic and un-noticeable performance wise.
It wouldn't be such an issue on the exhaust side as they should just get blown out the pipe but it's the ones on the inlet that may going through the cylinders it they come adrift.
Personally I wouldn't be keen leaving them in and my view is that if they got in there they will come out.
The surrounding material is only soft ally and it should be possible to scrape away at the area with a small pick/sharpened scribe to release the beads.
The small amount of head material removed from around the guide won't affect anything.

Over the years i have seen the results of "engine cleaning" and so called engine refurbs.personally would not have it done,have seen balls ,grit media etc in engines,its sods law there is something in there that will surface at some point and cause grief,would prefer an engine cleaned by hand with care that stand a good chance of functioning as it should.I would take these motors back and see what the response is.

I am probably "teaching grannie to suck eggs here" but if you replace the guides, would you also need to recut the seats? Could you not remove and reuse the offending guides, carefully marking the rotational angle first so they go back at the right angle?

Have you contacted Steve Smethurst to get his advice, personally i would back it and let him sort it out, after all its not a cheap job>

foz

Steve did mine with the engine in one piece. Would that not be a safer option,

ZedHead wrote:I am probably "teaching grannie to suck eggs here" but if you replace the guides, would you also need to recut the seats? Could you not remove and reuse the offending guides, carefully marking the rotational angle first so they go back at the right angle?

Warming the guide, tapping it up a few mm then back down should be enough to shift the beads and hopefully not disturb the valve /seat orientation but removing the guide and trying to get it back in the same spot never works...been there done that..
Even just tapping it up and down could be enough to misalign it if you were unlucky and then you will have to re-cut the seats anyway and may as well go for fresh guides while you're at it if they are worn.
Maybe a bit of heat will loosen the beads but i would just dig them out with a pick.

Throw it back at him, it’s his job surely to clean up the parts afterwards? Bloody experts!

Not sure why you're asking on here. I'd be straight back to Mr.Smethhurst..

Thanks for all the replies. I've used an extremely fine engraving bit in a Dremel down the gap between the head and the guide and removed a tiny amount of material but also seem to have succeeded in shifting the ceramic balls. I'm going to do the same with the other three inlet valves and as suggested will leave the exhaust guides as anything that did come loose from here would already be on its way out of the head.

Am quite relieved as was worried I'd have to shift the guides.

I think I will mention this to Steve S as I can't see my it wouldn't be possible to use some sort of plastic cap on the guide which would shield this crevice from the media and it might save someone the worry and hassle of getting these pesky little ceramic balls out.