Hello Guest User,

Please feel free to have a look around the forum but be aware that as an unregistered guest you can't see all of it and you can't post.

To access these 'Registered Users Only' areas simply register and login.

APE manual camchain tensioner adjustment.

Need help restoring, building, or finding then try here.

Moderators: chrisu, paul doran, Taffus, KeithZ1R

Message
Author
Coose
Custard Cream
Custard Cream
Posts: 703
Joined: 20th Apr 2015
Location: North Yorks

APE manual camchain tensioner adjustment.

#1 PostAuthor: Coose » Tue May 22, 2018 3:26 pm

Following my recent top-end rebuild on my J the cams are still tapping from time-to-time, so I thought I'd reset the (manual APE) tensioner whilst it was cold, following APE's instructions to wind it in by hand when cold, but instead of winding it back 1/4 turn I tend to go one flat on the bolt. No difference...

Whilst out on the bike I got to thinking (always dangerous). I used to hillclimb an old XS650 and the process with that was the same but do it hot with the engine running, so I did just that and it's much better (though still taps from time-to-time but much less). If you consider a sprung tensioner, there's always pressure applied when the chain is at its slackest, so even now if it's tight when it's cold it won't be tight for long. There's no whining from the chain at the moment but I'll have a listen when it's cold (I've just stopped whilst out on a test ride).

Any thoughts?

Julian_Boolean
Custard Cream
Custard Cream
Posts: 804
Joined: 20th Oct 2016
Location: Ipswich

Re: APE manual camchain tensioner adjustment.

#2 PostAuthor: Julian_Boolean » Tue May 22, 2018 3:55 pm

Too tight will cause more damage than a little slack, so it's good you can still here it rattle occasionally.
So long as the cam chain isn't slopping about it'll be fine.
An expanding collection of parts pretending to be a Z1100R and a Yamaha FZ750

Coose
Custard Cream
Custard Cream
Posts: 703
Joined: 20th Apr 2015
Location: North Yorks

Re: APE manual camchain tensioner adjustment.

#3 PostAuthor: Coose » Tue May 22, 2018 4:08 pm

Julian_Boolean wrote:Too tight will cause more damage than a little slack, so it's good you can still here it rattle occasionally.
So long as the cam chain isn't slopping about it'll be fine.


I do agree, but the hyvo chain does need to be quite tight to stop it jumping teeth. I know this from when I was wrestling the cams back in last week... :wink:
And, as I said the standard sprung tensioner will tighten the chain when it's at its slackest and should maintain that tension (unless it's knackered of course, and most probably are by now).

It's a tricky one!

User avatar
z1000puddin
Custard Cream
Custard Cream
Posts: 891
Joined: 23rd Jul 2011
Location: Aberdeen,Dyce

Re: APE manual camchain tensioner adjustment.

#4 PostAuthor: z1000puddin » Wed May 23, 2018 12:43 pm

Sorry for the thread hijack but,,,,

Correct adjustment on the ape is essential as I have just found out to my despair !!

I think my newly built 1100r has just jumped a tooth, My fault entirely as i though it would be better a little slack, rather than a little tight.

I will need to check, tonight if there is any major damage, but I am hoping ( fingers crossed) there is no damage done.
The bike still idles away nicely, but as the revs increase to around 3k its evident something is amiss, timing out & pinked when I shut it down.
Zed til Dead

Julian_Boolean
Custard Cream
Custard Cream
Posts: 804
Joined: 20th Oct 2016
Location: Ipswich

Re: APE manual camchain tensioner adjustment.

#5 PostAuthor: Julian_Boolean » Wed May 23, 2018 1:10 pm

I think you'll be okay, I've turned mine over by hand with it a tooth out and nothing hit anything.
When mine misfired at over 3000rpm it was the ignition igniter that caused the problem.
An expanding collection of parts pretending to be a Z1100R and a Yamaha FZ750

Coose
Custard Cream
Custard Cream
Posts: 703
Joined: 20th Apr 2015
Location: North Yorks

Re: APE manual camchain tensioner adjustment.

#6 PostAuthor: Coose » Wed May 23, 2018 8:02 pm

z1000puddin wrote:Sorry for the thread hijack but,,,,

Correct adjustment on the ape is essential as I have just found out to my despair !!

I think my newly built 1100r has just jumped a tooth, My fault entirely as i though it would be better a little slack, rather than a little tight.

I will need to check, tonight if there is any major damage, but I am hoping ( fingers crossed) there is no damage done.
The bike still idles away nicely, but as the revs increase to around 3k its evident something is amiss, timing out & pinked when I shut it down.


Don't worry, you're not hijacking as it's all the same subject.
You may be lucky, but then you may not. It turns out that my exhaust cam was a tooth out when I took it apart. The exhaust valves had just been touching the pistons and all but one were fine. The bent one was only ever so slight, though it was still running ok.

Anyway, so that I don’t become obsessed with camchain tension I spent a bit of time tonight checking it when cold having set it when hot last night. Resetting it cold was maybe two flats further out on the bolt, which is quite a coarse pitch. So, I then spent a bit of time setting it whilst warm and running at a constant speed (about 1500-2000rpm), where I got it to a point where you could feel the chain running against the guide through the tensioner bolt, but if you rocked the bolt gently you didn’t feel it. That’ll do for me!

User avatar
z1000puddin
Custard Cream
Custard Cream
Posts: 891
Joined: 23rd Jul 2011
Location: Aberdeen,Dyce

Re: APE manual camchain tensioner adjustment.

#7 PostAuthor: z1000puddin » Fri May 25, 2018 8:46 am

Got my cover off to check last night.
As I haven't a manual for these, can anyone advise on how many pins i need to count & from where, I've heard 41, but not sure.

Im here with my fingers crossed :sad
Attachments
Valve Timing (2).JPG
Valve Timing (1).JPG
Zed til Dead

Julian_Boolean
Custard Cream
Custard Cream
Posts: 804
Joined: 20th Oct 2016
Location: Ipswich

Re: APE manual camchain tensioner adjustment.

#8 PostAuthor: Julian_Boolean » Fri May 25, 2018 8:59 am

That looks about right, and your cam chain looks a lot less worn than mine, if I remember I'll check the manual tonight
An expanding collection of parts pretending to be a Z1100R and a Yamaha FZ750

User avatar
zed1015
Hardcore
Hardcore
Posts: 3798
Joined: 2nd Nov 2005
Location: Somewhere between Scunny and Goole.

Re: APE manual camchain tensioner adjustment.

#9 PostAuthor: zed1015 » Fri May 25, 2018 11:54 am

z1000puddin wrote:Got my cover off to check last night.
As I haven't a manual for these, can anyone advise on how many pins i need to count & from where, I've heard 41, but not sure. Im here with my fingers crossed :sad


Correct tooth count is 44 from first pin above the exhaust cam arrow to the inlet cam arrow.

Coose
Custard Cream
Custard Cream
Posts: 703
Joined: 20th Apr 2015
Location: North Yorks

Re: APE manual camchain tensioner adjustment.

#10 PostAuthor: Coose » Fri May 25, 2018 12:45 pm

As above that looks to be fine at 44t between arrows. Is the slot on the RH end of the exhaust cam level with the cam cover gasket face, and is the inlet cam either level or slightly behind?

User avatar
z1000puddin
Custard Cream
Custard Cream
Posts: 891
Joined: 23rd Jul 2011
Location: Aberdeen,Dyce

Re: APE manual camchain tensioner adjustment.

#11 PostAuthor: z1000puddin » Fri May 25, 2018 1:16 pm

Yeah 44 teeth is what I have.
The slot on the ends of both camshafts are parallel with the gasket face.

So my next step is to do a compression test, to see if any valve issues, if that works out okay.I need to investigate further & it will need to be stripped.
It doesn't look good at all at this stage. :sad
Zed til Dead

Julian_Boolean
Custard Cream
Custard Cream
Posts: 804
Joined: 20th Oct 2016
Location: Ipswich

Re: APE manual camchain tensioner adjustment.

#12 PostAuthor: Julian_Boolean » Fri May 25, 2018 1:58 pm

Pop the head off if you're worried, it doesn't take very long to do.
What ignition system are you running, as your problem sounded more ignition related to me.
An expanding collection of parts pretending to be a Z1100R and a Yamaha FZ750

User avatar
z1000puddin
Custard Cream
Custard Cream
Posts: 891
Joined: 23rd Jul 2011
Location: Aberdeen,Dyce

Re: APE manual camchain tensioner adjustment.

#13 PostAuthor: z1000puddin » Fri May 25, 2018 5:50 pm

Julian
I am running a dyna s,with mechanical advance & Dyna coils
All was running perfectly prior this issue.
I have just done a compression check & all 4 pots were 190psi with engine cold & wide open throttle.
So it doesn’t look to be valve issue or piston rings?
I’m stumped.
What else would cause precognition?
Zed til Dead

Coose
Custard Cream
Custard Cream
Posts: 703
Joined: 20th Apr 2015
Location: North Yorks

Re: APE manual camchain tensioner adjustment.

#14 PostAuthor: Coose » Fri May 25, 2018 6:27 pm

Have you checked the ignition timing and that the advance is working and free? There's nothing else if the cam timing seems to be correct...

User avatar
z1000puddin
Custard Cream
Custard Cream
Posts: 891
Joined: 23rd Jul 2011
Location: Aberdeen,Dyce

Re: APE manual camchain tensioner adjustment.

#15 PostAuthor: z1000puddin » Thu May 31, 2018 5:18 am

Getting the ignition timing checked out today, but I can’t even get it started , just doesn’t seem to be petrol getting into the Bores??
Confused
Zed til Dead


Return to “Bike Help”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: ZZR1993 and 137 guests