Z1OwnersClub GB

Following my recent top-end rebuild on my J the cams are still tapping from time-to-time, so I thought I'd reset the (manual APE) tensioner whilst it was cold, following APE's instructions to wind it in by hand when cold, but instead of winding it back 1/4 turn I tend to go one flat on the bolt. No difference...

Whilst out on the bike I got to thinking (always dangerous). I used to hillclimb an old XS650 and the process with that was the same but do it hot with the engine running, so I did just that and it's much better (though still taps from time-to-time but much less). If you consider a sprung tensioner, there's always pressure applied when the chain is at its slackest, so even now if it's tight when it's cold it won't be tight for long. There's no whining from the chain at the moment but I'll have a listen when it's cold (I've just stopped whilst out on a test ride).

Any thoughts?

Too tight will cause more damage than a little slack, so it's good you can still here it rattle occasionally.
So long as the cam chain isn't slopping about it'll be fine.

Julian_Boolean wrote:Too tight will cause more damage than a little slack, so it's good you can still here it rattle occasionally.
So long as the cam chain isn't slopping about it'll be fine.

I do agree, but the hyvo chain does need to be quite tight to stop it jumping teeth. I know this from when I was wrestling the cams back in last week...
And, as I said the standard sprung tensioner will tighten the chain when it's at its slackest and should maintain that tension (unless it's knackered of course, and most probably are by now).

It's a tricky one!

Sorry for the thread hijack but,,,,

Correct adjustment on the ape is essential as I have just found out to my despair !!

I think my newly built 1100r has just jumped a tooth, My fault entirely as i though it would be better a little slack, rather than a little tight.

I will need to check, tonight if there is any major damage, but I am hoping ( fingers crossed) there is no damage done.
The bike still idles away nicely, but as the revs increase to around 3k its evident something is amiss, timing out & pinked when I shut it down.

I think you'll be okay, I've turned mine over by hand with it a tooth out and nothing hit anything.
When mine misfired at over 3000rpm it was the ignition igniter that caused the problem.

z1000puddin wrote:Sorry for the thread hijack but,,,,

Correct adjustment on the ape is essential as I have just found out to my despair !!

I think my newly built 1100r has just jumped a tooth, My fault entirely as i though it would be better a little slack, rather than a little tight.

I will need to check, tonight if there is any major damage, but I am hoping ( fingers crossed) there is no damage done.
The bike still idles away nicely, but as the revs increase to around 3k its evident something is amiss, timing out & pinked when I shut it down.

Don't worry, you're not hijacking as it's all the same subject.
You may be lucky, but then you may not. It turns out that my exhaust cam was a tooth out when I took it apart. The exhaust valves had just been touching the pistons and all but one were fine. The bent one was only ever so slight, though it was still running ok.

Anyway, so that I don’t become obsessed with camchain tension I spent a bit of time tonight checking it when cold having set it when hot last night. Resetting it cold was maybe two flats further out on the bolt, which is quite a coarse pitch. So, I then spent a bit of time setting it whilst warm and running at a constant speed (about 1500-2000rpm), where I got it to a point where you could feel the chain running against the guide through the tensioner bolt, but if you rocked the bolt gently you didn’t feel it. That’ll do for me!

Got my cover off to check last night.
As I haven't a manual for these, can anyone advise on how many pins i need to count & from where, I've heard 41, but not sure.

Im here with my fingers crossed

That looks about right, and your cam chain looks a lot less worn than mine, if I remember I'll check the manual tonight

z1000puddin wrote:Got my cover off to check last night.
As I haven't a manual for these, can anyone advise on how many pins i need to count & from where, I've heard 41, but not sure. Im here with my fingers crossed

Correct tooth count is 44 from first pin above the exhaust cam arrow to the inlet cam arrow.

As above that looks to be fine at 44t between arrows. Is the slot on the RH end of the exhaust cam level with the cam cover gasket face, and is the inlet cam either level or slightly behind?

Yeah 44 teeth is what I have.
The slot on the ends of both camshafts are parallel with the gasket face.

So my next step is to do a compression test, to see if any valve issues, if that works out okay.I need to investigate further & it will need to be stripped.
It doesn't look good at all at this stage.

Pop the head off if you're worried, it doesn't take very long to do.
What ignition system are you running, as your problem sounded more ignition related to me.

Julian
I am running a dyna s,with mechanical advance & Dyna coils
All was running perfectly prior this issue.
I have just done a compression check & all 4 pots were 190psi with engine cold & wide open throttle.
So it doesn’t look to be valve issue or piston rings?
I’m stumped.
What else would cause precognition?

Have you checked the ignition timing and that the advance is working and free? There's nothing else if the cam timing seems to be correct...

Getting the ignition timing checked out today, but I can’t even get it started , just doesn’t seem to be petrol getting into the Bores??
Confused