Z1OwnersClub GB

So, I’ve got a z1000a1 with Dyna ignition which has an advancer I’ve always been a bit suspicious of as its rather slack.

Dunno why it’s taken so long, but I got round to comparing it to my gpz1100b2 the other day. The spring rate on the gpz is far tighter.

The two advancers are different part numbers, the z has a points cam, the gpz has a trigger for the hall sensors.

Are they supposed to have different spring rates? I wondered if the z has softer springs because of the drag from the points?

If this were the case wouldn’t you need to uprate the advance springs when converting to Dyna or similar ignition? Not heard this idea mentioned anywhere though... or is my Z advancer shagged out?

Olly

Maybe no difference in spring rate, the ones the Z advancer will just be worn and stretched.

Hi Olly
you could replace the springs of the Z mechnical advancer with new ones but before you do that you could have a look at the Gpz mechanical advancer to see if it's lubricated...that could allso explain the difference in spring rate.
Good luck!
GrtZ
Philippe

Hi,

I had both different advancers off the bikes last night - they do differ a fair bit and aren’t actually interchangeable. The springs are different too. The gpz ones are thicker, have fewer coils and have quite a bit of preload on them.

Both advancers are properly greased and move freely.

Makes sense because the factory manuals (I’ve got the correct gpz 1100 manual and a z1000a2 manual) say that though the two different bikes have the same advance (10 btdc idle, 40 btdc fully advanced) the z should be fully advanced at something like 2400 and the gpz is 3200 (I can’t remember the exact figures right now so don’t quote me).

I can tell from the images in the manuals that the springs are different and both bikes have the correct parts on them.

Shame because there’s a cheap nos gpz one on eBay, and I was thinking of using that, or making a good one out of the two.

Can the springs be bought separately phillipe? I haven’t seen them anywhere.

Many thanks,

Olly

Mr Bump wrote:Hi,

I had both different advancers off the bikes last night - they do differ a fair bit and aren’t actually interchangeable. The springs are different too. The gpz ones are thicker, have fewer coils and have quite a bit of preload on them.

Both advancers are properly greased and move freely.

Makes sense because the factory manuals (I’ve got the correct gpz 1100 manual and a z1000a2 manual) say that though the two different bikes have the same advance (10 btdc idle, 40 btdc fully advanced) the z should be fully advanced at something like 2400 and the gpz is 3200 (I can’t remember the exact figures right now so don’t quote me).

I can tell from the images in the manuals that the springs are different and both bikes have the correct parts on them.

Shame because there’s a cheap nos gpz one on eBay, and I was thinking of using that, or making a good one out of the two.

Can the springs be bought separately phillipe? I haven’t seen them anywhere.

Many thanks,

Olly

This is correct, the advance rate is different, and using a later one on the earlier engine does contribute to poor running.

New ones for you engine are available complete, but they aren't cheap, £117.00 list from Z-power, but you get a discount.

If your not using points and have electronic ignition , why does it matter ? the timing is set against the new back plate and forever the same . set 40% full advanced at 5000

Because Dyna ignition isn’t electronic- it doesn’t have any sort of map in it, it just triggers optically from the advancer, so it’s like solid state points, if that makes sense.

With a mechanical advance setting it up at full advance won’t pick up if the bike is at 50% advance at tick over because the springs are shagged.

Gpz twinshock generation bikes have a similar set up but using a simple cdi and hall sensors.

Unitrack onwards have an advance curve in the cdi (technical description might be dodgy but you get the gist) as you describe. 30 - 40 year old technology....

Mr Bump wrote:Because Dyna ignition isn’t electronic- it doesn’t have any sort of map in it, it just triggers optically from the advancer, so it’s like solid state points, if that makes sense.

Nope - Dyna S is magnetically fired (Hall effect I think?) - Newtronics (Pirahna) ignition were optical.

Pigford wrote:

Mr Bump wrote:Because Dyna ignition isn’t electronic- it doesn’t have any sort of map in it, it just triggers optically from the advancer, so it’s like solid state points, if that makes sense.

Nope - Dyna S is magnetically fired (Hall effect I think?) - Newtronics (Pirahna) ignition were optical.

Fair one. I stand corrected.

I’m not very good at multitasking - was trying to type on my gay little phone, eat curry, hold a conversation, breathe and maintain a pulse all at the same time. Bit ambitious that.

Other than that I believe I’ve got the technical info right???

I’ve noticed the new units on zpower site - my tight bastard instincts kick in though when I look at the price. I’ll get hold of a strobe light on it and see what it does.. looks to me like it might be unstable advance at low revs though.

Thanks for the guidance.

Olly

hi, one on ebay at the moment for z900/ z1000

Has the Z1000 advancer lost the little damper blocks?
They alter the effective position of the zero mark and contribute positively to the initial slackness of the springs!!

AL

Al wrote:Has the Z1000 advancer lost the little damper blocks?
They alter the effective position of the zero mark and contribute positively to the initial slackness of the springs!!

AL

Yes, they are there, a bit squished but still there. Thanks.

Olly

Hi Olly
I've seen the springs somewhere for sale but can't find them back now. ..
As soon as I find them I'll send a PM to you.
GrtZ
Philippe