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barrel wont fit

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davidcouzens
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barrel wont fit

#1 PostAuthor: davidcouzens » Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:35 pm

Hi all

I'm trying to fit a z1000 a2 barrel onto a z900 bottom end and it wont fit. I thought this was a simple swap, anyone had any experience of this. Barrel seems to be tight at the back and wont slide over the front dowels. its very close but not quite. any advice would be welcome.

many thanks
Dave

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flateddie
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Re: barrel wont fit

#2 PostAuthor: flateddie » Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:52 pm

I thought the crankcase mouths needed opening up a bit to use 1000 barrels on a 900
Z1b, z1000a1 x 2 , Aprilia v4 Tuono factory, SV1000

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Re: barrel wont fit

#3 PostAuthor: johny brando » Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:08 am

davidcouzens wrote:Hi all

I'm trying to fit a z1000 a2 barrel onto a z900 bottom end and it wont fit. I thought this was a simple swap, anyone had any experience of this. Barrel seems to be tight at the back and wont slide over the front dowels. its very close but not quite. any advice would be welcome.

many thanks
Dave


Hi Dave,
Your right mate ! I have used std 1000 barrels on my 900's before & they went straight on I don't recall if they were Z1R / A1/ A2 barrels though ...I think there all the same & interchangeable ( no need for having the C/ cases mouths opened up .... that applies to taking them over 1100 cc I think ? ...where the Liner O/D is enlarged )
Try measuring with Vernier gauge & Micrometer the O/D & I/D of dowels & the related bores there going into . If thats correct check some one has not deformed the dowels or the recess bores they sit in ! Std they are a tight fit in both the cases & barrel & many people don't carefully use heat to help remove them & that then can gnarl and distort them which will cause difficulty in them seated properly ( watch out & check in mixing dowels from other engines too ...as there was issues once along time ago with 900 barrel dowels bottoming out before the barrel & crankcase mated up = that then caused oil leaks at the gasket interfaces . To ensure your dowels overall length are OK they must be about 2 mm or more less in length than the total relieved dowel bore length , this allows for the closed up clearance + expansion + base gasket thickness .
Don't forget to fit each of the barrel liner O rings too if there not there already .......as theres a common misconception that there not needed & they are ! = they stops capillary action occurring !
Happy hunting bud. Johny. B

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Re: barrel wont fit

#4 PostAuthor: Philippe » Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:57 am

Hi David
if the Z900 bottom end comes from a Z1-A-B engine the barrel holes need widening. If the bottom end comes from a Z900A4 it should work. You can recognize the A4 bottom end at the casting of the engine oil capacity on top of the clutch housing.
The O-rings around the Z1000 barrels are necessary if they come from an engine before '79. I assembled some engines and experienced that on some '79 engines there were O*rings and on some others there weren't. At an unknown moment in '79 the fit of the barrels into the cylinder became thighter. Have a look at the barrels, if there's a groove between the barrel and the alloy, install the O-rings, if there's not a groove they're not necessary.
All this information is based on my personal experience with the Z engines. If someone has information which is more accurate they will post it here, don't worry.
I hope you can sort it out!
GrtZ
Philippe
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Re: barrel wont fit

#5 PostAuthor: zed1015 » Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:32 am

Early 900 cases need the mouths opening slightly for the 1000 liners to clear.
It is mostly from the rear of the case mouths.
If the swap is being done on a built/running bike and the engine is still in the frame this can be done carefully using a half round file with some grease covered rag down the mouths to catch any filings.

davidcouzens
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Re: barrel wont fit

#6 PostAuthor: davidcouzens » Mon Aug 19, 2019 7:58 pm

hi all

many thanks for your replies, i shall measure the mouths and the dowels, they can be removed and go from there. the engine is z1e-106324 i think dated early 76, the oil capacity is visibly cast on the top of the crankcase clutch side. the engine is out of the frame, these barrels came from an A2 engine, and went on an off that one easily. on the 900 its tight at the rear of the mouths so i'm thinking along the lines of removing some material from that area. I shall seek advice from SEP near me.

thanks again

Dave

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Re: barrel wont fit

#7 PostAuthor: johny brando » Tue Aug 20, 2019 2:17 am

[quote="davidcouzens"]hi all

many thanks for your replies, i shall measure the mouths and the dowels, they can be removed and go from there. the engine is z1e-106324 i think dated early 76, the oil capacity is visibly cast on the top of the crankcase clutch side. the engine is out of the frame, these barrels came from an A2 engine, and went on an off that one easily. on the 900 its tight at the rear of the mouths so i'm thinking along the lines of removing some material from that area. I shall seek advice from SEP near me.

thanks again

Dave[/ Glad you have some positive direction now & Rob...aka ZED 1015 is a very long standing ,sound ,experienced & knowledgable guy on this Forum his opinions & input can always be taken to the Bank !!!!!!!!! Good luck on your journey mate. Johny. B

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Re: barrel wont fit

#8 PostAuthor: zed1015 » Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:24 am

There's no point in taking out the location dowels as they are the same size on all 900 and 1000 motors.
Just use a 1000 base gasket as a guide to how much material needs removing as this will save you repeatedly test fitting the block.

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Re: barrel wont fit

#9 PostAuthor: ADRIAN H » Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:25 pm

davidcouzens wrote:hi all

many thanks for your replies, i shall measure the mouths and the dowels, they can be removed and go from there. the engine is z1e-106324 i think dated early 76, the oil capacity is visibly cast on the top of the crankcase clutch side. the engine is out of the frame, these barrels came from an A2 engine, and went on an off that one easily. on the 900 its tight at the rear of the mouths so i'm thinking along the lines of removing some material from that area. I shall seek advice from SEP near me.

thanks again

Dave


Dowels are same throughout range.

take rob (Zed1015) advise, which is always spot on. We are very lucky to have him here.
adrianhorsfield@live.co.uk
Sunny Bournemouth. Dorset. UK.

davidcouzens
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Location: Derby

Re: barrel wont fit

#10 PostAuthor: davidcouzens » Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:11 pm

Hi All

still messing about with this one, i have the option to purchase and fit a z900 barrel and pistons to the z900 bottom end, but the cylinder head i have is from a z1000A2, will this cylinder head work with the 900 barrels? i think it will using the z900 head gasket but i'm not sure.

any advice would be welcome

many thanks

Dave

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Re: barrel wont fit

#11 PostAuthor: Philippe » Sun Sep 08, 2019 4:19 am

Hi Dave
a Z1000 head will mount without any problem on the Z900 barrels. The diameter of the combustion chamber is the same. You can use the gasket of the Z900 without any problems as long as the pistons are not to much oversized. If those are, use a gasket of the Z1000.
Good luck with it.
GrtZ
Philippe
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Re: barrel wont fit

#12 PostAuthor: zed1015 » Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:31 am

davidcouzens wrote:Hi All

I have the option to purchase and fit a z900 barrel and pistons to the z900 bottom end, but the cylinder head i have is from a z1000A2, will this cylinder head work with the 900 barrels? i think it will using the z900 head gasket but i'm not sure.
any advice would be welcome
many thanks
Dave

1000 head is identical to the 900 and bolts straight on except for the exhaust studs which are 8mm instead of 6mm.
Use the 900 gasket with the 900 block, it's good up to the max oversize on the 900.

davidcouzens
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Location: Derby

Re: barrel wont fit

#13 PostAuthor: davidcouzens » Sun Sep 08, 2019 7:33 pm

many thanks for your replies Philippe and Rob.
very helpful

Regards, Dave


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