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getting a parts list together

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moizeau
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getting a parts list together

#1 PostAuthor: moizeau » Mon Jun 15, 2020 6:30 pm

A couple of questions regarding sourcing parts.
I've seen that many use Cometic or Vesrah gaskets, any particular suppliers recommended? I have also read that with a bore of 1170 or above the Cometic copper head gasket is recommended, is this the case?
I have also read that complete gasket sets aren't 'complete' and don't include various seals / o rings?
Cam chains, DID or genuine? (or another) The genuine seem cheaper than the DID's?
Cam chain guides, looking on Suzuki Perf site they have 2 different ones listed, the price varies massively, is this a true reflection on quality? I.E. go for the more expensive?
Piston rings, On my 75mm unknown pistons that are marked 'C' the top ring groove is 0.95mm, the 2nd 1.00mm and the oil scraper 2.65mm, do these ring any bells and who do I go to for them?
Cheers
Pete

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zed1015
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Re: getting a parts list together

#2 PostAuthor: zed1015 » Mon Jun 15, 2020 7:23 pm

I prefer Cometic gaskets.
Don't use a copper head gasket , use fibre or even MLS if the faces are very clean and flat.
Genuine or DID camchains are both ok.
Nick at Suzuki performance will give you good advice and also Debben Performance as well as ZPOWER can supply most parts.
Paid up Z1 members get 10% off at ZPOWER.

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Al
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Re: getting a parts list together

#3 PostAuthor: Al » Mon Jun 15, 2020 7:50 pm

As above.
Use a one piece head gasket i prefer MLS now. This means you dont have to buy that £40 cam tunnel 'O' ring thing or the 'O' rings that go round the outer studs.
I bought my last gasket set about four years ago from Debbens, Vesrah i believe, and i think it did not have the chamferred 'O' rings in the oil feed gallery! Because i was buying an MLS 1170 head Gasket at the same Ray gave me a refund for the two piece head gasket which i did not need which meant the remainder was just a few quid!
I simply buy gen K ones when i need to remove an outer cover now.
Dont know about different cam chain guides but Nick at SPS will talk you through it and while you are there he will sell you the best valve stem seals in the current market place.
I would fire a contact to Wiseco and ask them about ident. on the pistons and with the sizes you have they may be able to suggest what to do.

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moizeau
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Re: getting a parts list together

#4 PostAuthor: moizeau » Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:52 pm

Rob, Al, thanks very much. I'll give SPS a ring and go from there.
Cheers
Pete

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Re: getting a parts list together

#5 PostAuthor: moizeau » Tue Jun 16, 2020 6:13 pm

Spoke to Nick today. He's going to sort all the gaskets out. Told me to go to Kwak for the seals that aren't included. (or Zpower). Can't nail down the spare engine piston though. It should have a top ring gap of 1mm according to the 'C'. A 1mm ring does fit but only gives a clearance of 0.02mm, that's without measuring accurately the ring (it should be a 1mm ring) Need to get a mic if I'm getting this anal.
Since the call I looked at the bike pistons, there are Wiseco (4380M07500) but the other number doesn't show up on a search, it's 4349G the one on the current info shows '2953'. So both sets are 75mm.
Next was to check the ring gaps. Bike piston rings in spare liners. 0.2mm at 30mm from the bottom but 0.7mm at 30mm from top.
The known Wis pistons have hot a few vertical scores under the clips but are mint apart from that.
I'm thinking to hone both sets of liners out of the cylinders (as they are now) then clean the pistons up and check tolerances with and without the set of rings that I've got. Not great but I can use them as datum to measure the rest.
Never gone into it this far before, sent cranks off for regrind and new shells and trusted the chap.
Am I being too anal? I didn't think you could be with engineering....but
I'm sure I could chuck it back together and it would run fine.......but for how long...
Only want to do it once.
Rob, Al or Al, Rob, what do you reckon, everyone else is also welcome.
Cheers
Pete

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#6 PostAuthor: Al » Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:01 pm

There is supposedly some history with liners and barrels which you can read about. Story goes that they bored the liners and pressed them in afterwards. Since the pressure of the barrels is not the same all the way they deformed and caused oil burning problems! Just a thought.
Crank: dont know who is doing it for you but there is no grinding of crankpins and no new shells. They are roller bearings all the way and once the surface frets, that pin or pins are dead. Same goes for the big ends in the rods. Unitrak cranks are far more prone to this than all the earlier versions. They are also supposed to twist more redily than all other versions!

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Re: getting a parts list together

#7 PostAuthor: zed1015 » Wed Jun 17, 2020 6:31 pm

It was the 1000J that had oil burning problems and had a recall due to a cost cutting exercise of boring the liners before they were fitted in the blocks.
As far as i'm aware it was just the first run of the J and certainly didn't extend to the GPZ's.

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Re: getting a parts list together

#8 PostAuthor: moizeau » Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:54 am

Thanks for the replies.
Regarding the crank grinding Al, I was referring to a previous experience of a total rebuild with a car engine rather too vaguely.
Both liners were really tight and needed a lot of heat so quite possibly the measurements I've got with them not being in the barrels will be false.
Hone out of the barrels then choose the 'best' ones and measure ring gaps, then re-insert and measure again and see what the difference is for future knowledge.
Cheers again
Pete

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Re: getting a parts list together

#9 PostAuthor: Al » Thu Jun 18, 2020 4:53 pm

Got it. :D
I was trying to suggest that honing the liners outside of the barrels and then re-inserting them may lead to problems of distortion if those liners end up being the ones you use.

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moizeau
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Re: getting a parts list together

#10 PostAuthor: moizeau » Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:47 pm

Got you, thanks, new plan needed then.
Cheers
Pete

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Re: getting a parts list together

#11 PostAuthor: rickm » Fri Jun 19, 2020 9:52 am

I can confirm from personal experience that some early Js had an oil burning problem.
I used to carry a 1L oil bottle with me when I was doing anything more than 200 miles on a trip !
After a mishap with overheating, I replaced the barrels and pistons with some from a gpz1100b1, and they were fine.
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