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Crankshaft damage - advice needed.
Moderators: paul doran, Taffus, KeithZ1R, chrisu
Crankshaft damage - advice needed.
Hi all.
The images below are from the end of my ’75 Z1B crankshaft which I am in the process of restoring. This is the rotor end and as you can see there’s been some damage to the slot for the woodruff key. I pulled out what looked like some small pieces of epoxy so I am guessing the last guy tried to fix it that way!
My question is this; to what extent is this going to cause problems and what would be the best approach to addressing it?
It's difficult to figure to what extent the key itself (and by association the slot in the shaft) would come under regular pressure once the rotor and starter clutch are in place and all torqued up (I say this based on the effort it takes to get the thing off in the first place.) It’s also difficult to imagine how this has occurred. As you can tell, I just dunno.
Your collective input would be very welcome.
Thanks.
Stewart.
The images below are from the end of my ’75 Z1B crankshaft which I am in the process of restoring. This is the rotor end and as you can see there’s been some damage to the slot for the woodruff key. I pulled out what looked like some small pieces of epoxy so I am guessing the last guy tried to fix it that way!
My question is this; to what extent is this going to cause problems and what would be the best approach to addressing it?
It's difficult to figure to what extent the key itself (and by association the slot in the shaft) would come under regular pressure once the rotor and starter clutch are in place and all torqued up (I say this based on the effort it takes to get the thing off in the first place.) It’s also difficult to imagine how this has occurred. As you can tell, I just dunno.
Your collective input would be very welcome.
Thanks.
Stewart.
Re: Crankshaft damage - advice needed.
That looks pretty brutal - I wonder if the alternator stator fouled the rotor very suddenly (ie to a dead stop). This could possibly happen in a crash if the case got bashed in, or even if the stator wasn't installed correctly - the clearance is pretty fine.
I'm sure that could be fixed by someone with the right skills, whether you could get away with not doing is open to debate.
I'm sure that could be fixed by someone with the right skills, whether you could get away with not doing is open to debate.
1974 Z1A
1969 H**** CL450 ‘Scrambler’
2005 H-D XL1200R Sportster
1985 Porsche 911 3.2 Carrera Sport
1969 H**** CL450 ‘Scrambler’
2005 H-D XL1200R Sportster
1985 Porsche 911 3.2 Carrera Sport
Re: Crankshaft damage - advice needed.
Rob is your man he will be along presently with advice or bad news you could send him a pm to speed up the process his usename is zed1015
Keith
You can never have too many tools in your life, except the two legged variety
I'm never wrong, once I thought I was but I was
mistaken.
Phil Churchett winner 2013
You can never have too many tools in your life, except the two legged variety
I'm never wrong, once I thought I was but I was
mistaken.
Phil Churchett winner 2013
Re: Crankshaft damage - advice needed.
buzzard is the man to speak to. it can be repaired but could be expensive send him some photo's & get his professional advise as an engineer
taken from his facebook page. buzzard1425@gmail.com
https://www.facebook.com/BuzzWorkz
taken from his facebook page. buzzard1425@gmail.com
https://www.facebook.com/BuzzWorkz
Re: Crankshaft damage - advice needed.
May be talking cobblers but my understanding of the woodruff key is simply to locate the rotor whilst it's being tightened. I'd guess that the rotor bolt wasn't tightened properly and when the starter button was pressed it sheared the key. Regarding the repair, if welding it, make up a copper disc that fits snugly that way the weld doesn't run into the slot and makes it easier to dress back. If enough of the slot still exists, enough to hold the key perpendicular and secure, you may get away with it as is.
As first mentioned, this may be cobblers.
As first mentioned, this may be cobblers.
Pete
Re: Crankshaft damage - advice needed.
Whilst it’s out send it off for a full strip and rebuild. Buzzard as mentioned before, or Ray Debben @ Debben Performance.
adrianhorsfield@live.co.uk
Sunny Bournemouth. Dorset. UK.
Sunny Bournemouth. Dorset. UK.
Re: Crankshaft damage - advice needed.
moizeau wrote:May be talking cobblers but my understanding of the woodruff key is simply to locate the rotor whilst it's being tightened. I'd guess that the rotor bolt wasn't tightened properly and when the starter button was pressed it sheared the key. Regarding the repair, if welding it, make up a copper disc that fits snugly that way the weld doesn't run into the slot and makes it easier to dress back. If enough of the slot still exists, enough to hold the key perpendicular and secure, you may get away with it as is.
As first mentioned, this may be cobblers.
Your logic about the woodruff key rings true to me regarding it being a locating pin effectively, rather than a stress bearing piece. But also (like you) I am not sure I’m not talking cobblers because it suits what I want the outcome to be.
Anyone else wanna row in behind or refute this notion?
Re: Crankshaft damage - advice needed.
ADRIAN H wrote:Whilst it’s out send it off for a full strip and rebuild. Buzzard as mentioned before, or Ray Debben @ Debben Performance.
Worth a thought alright. Have to see how the budget looks.
Re: Crankshaft damage - advice needed.
FOZ1A wrote:Padders has one for sale
Foz
Where will I find Padders?
Re: Crankshaft damage - advice needed.
He is on here, but he tends to sell on Facebook these days
Foz
Foz
Rickman CR1000, Harley Roadking
Re: Crankshaft damage - advice needed.
put some fine lapping paste on the taper and lap the rotor to the crank and forget about the keyway.........nothing tighter than a good taper fit
Re: Crankshaft damage - advice needed.
baz wrote:put some fine lapping paste on the taper and lap the rotor to the crank and forget about the keyway.........nothing tighter than a good taper fit
Someone else suggested something similar. I think it has merit. Perhaps a combination of approaches including repairing the break and the lapping approach. The mist is lifting.....
Re: Crankshaft damage - advice needed.
any z1/z900/z1000 (not mk2) will fit fine.
If you get stuck i've a few spares. mostly z1000 though. Buying from the UK will be expensive though due to weight/postage costs.
But having said that probably cheaper than getting this one fixed
If you get stuck i've a few spares. mostly z1000 though. Buying from the UK will be expensive though due to weight/postage costs.
But having said that probably cheaper than getting this one fixed
Re: Crankshaft damage - advice needed.
you will be wasting your time if you just lap the rotor to the crank the problem is you just cannot get enough torque on the 8mm bolt that holds the rotor on ( 18ftlbs ) that's why the z1000 has a bigger bolt 10mm thread unless you repair the keyway it will just come loose again
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