Z1OwnersClub GB

Last ran the bike in March this year and this fuel dates to September of 2020. Standard petrol from standard pump at BP i think so at least 5% ethanol.
I know a lot has been said about E5 and E10 but wasnt expecting this today when i drained the bowls!!



This is the same clear fuel from the 5 litre plastic can that didnt get put in the bike and left outside in 100% humidity for about half an hour, just done today, and its much more like the milky precipitate i am used to seeing with ethanol.



All the jets and inside the float bowls are covered in a sort of algae layer and are all blocked. The jet needle is also covered in it up to about the level of the venturi even though there was only about a couple of CC's of fuel ( a few mm) in each bowl.
It has seized two float valve plungers solid too



I've always left the fuel in the carbs before and its been Ok but i will need to re-think that i guess.

AL

I have had absolute hardship with both 2 stroke and 4 stroke outboard engines. There seems to be no correlation between what is an ok interval and what is too long to leave fuel in the line and it seems two stroke oil offers no protection from this, although I though it would.
I don't know how long I will have a boat lying up before I need it due to the nature of the work but if I think it will be laid up for a while I either drain the carbs or use Aspen . There are some you tube clips which show how to remove ethanol from fuel. seems quite easy, and we have fuel/water separators which could work very well to do this but I haven't bothered yet, easiest solution seems to be run it dry or drain carbs.

Perhaps 30 year ago i read an article in a journal; 'Bacteria ate my car park', and it seemed a bit far fetched at the time. Knowing enough about that now to be dangerous, it would have been 'Sulphite Reducing Clostridia' attacking concrete: 'concrete cancer' i believe they call it. Seems that bacteria have eaten my carburettors

Having a read round it looks like the family Acetobacteraceae ferment sugars or alcohols and produce Acetic acid during fermentation which is highly corrosive to soft metals; lead, zinc, aluminium, and brass. The corrosive attack on the latter probably explains the bright green colour and looking at the jets and brass parts it easy to see they have been nibbled severely.

Having some of that green stuff on my fingers draining the bowls and picking up a small plastic handled screwdriver to have a scratch about in the drain plug, it was alarming to find the handle dissolving in my grip.

They are a universally occuring species which are usually found disolving alcohols and sugars in most plants. Ethanol mixed with oxygen in the air generates agressive by products in its own right and there are two different types of bacteria; aerobic and an-aerobic forms which can reduce ethanol so it can also be done in the absence of oxygen as well.

Taken together, with the presence of water, Ethanol being Hygroscopic, and leaving them un-attended in the presence of soft metals is a recipe for disaster.
My error was to run the bowls down leaving approx the comparative amount you see in the glass (second pic) which would have attracted water from the air to it, when i should have just drained out that last little bit.

The small amount left in each bowl / drain plug would have had the main jets and needle jets dangling in it and thats where the corrosive effects can be seen most clearly and my guess is that it was pulling air / water from the surrounding carb body down the needle jet hence the biofilm on the jet needles.

I will get some Aspen 4 and in the mean time drain the bowls completely between use if laid up until i can use the alkylate petrol for down time.

AL

https://link.springer.com/article/10.10 ... 015-6729-4

Hi Al, I saw this product mentioned on Harrys Garage .
https://aaoil.co.uk/product-category/ra ... rage-fuel/
Looks like its half the price I pay for Aspen locally . Not sure how much carriage is though.

Thanks Colin thats a useful alternative to know about.

Anglo American 'R storage plus' would work out for me; £25 for 10 litres plus £20 standard delivery and VAT to £9 and a bit of change. £54 in round figures for 10 litres.
Aspen 4 is £20 for 5 litres including VAT but crucially there is a stockist (garden machinery supplier) about ten miles from me, sort of on my way to work ish. Its stable for 3 to 5 years and for a simple lay up, not running on the stuff, 5 litres will probably do me fine.

AL

That is scary Al. I've just mixed some Bardahl up and ran it through the ST and Zeph on a blat yesterday and am going to do the same with my various mowers, chainsaws and strimmers.
https://english.bardahl.fr/en-us/our-pr ... stabilizer
It reckons it's good for E10, so I've put that in......we will see

Isn't Esso 99 octane ethanol-free in most parts of the country?
I appreciate that it won't stay "fresh" as long as some of the specialist racing fuels and additives, but it's a lot cheaper!

rickm wrote:Isn't Esso 99 octane ethanol-free in most parts of the country?
I appreciate that it won't stay "fresh" as long as some of the specialist racing fuels and additives, but it's a lot cheaper!

I was under the impression, according to the Esso web site, that in certain areas, (including the North West) that their super petrol contains no ethanol.
That has been why I only ever fill up at Esso filling stations when I'm not going to be using my bikes for a while, such as the winter months here in the Manchester area.
However, a mate of mine has done some research into this & he is of the opinion that you need to go south of Birmingham to get ethanol free Esso. All Esso petrol delivered to the North West comes from the Runcorn refinery & that does have ethanol in it.

I don't know now who to believe, does anybody know if what my mate reckons is true, is true ?!

As I understand it both esso and shell premiums are e free but only in Midlands, South and South east.
South West, North East and west plus Scotland have e in all thier fuel. Don't know about Wales but probably contains leek extract.

I've just watched a YouTube video of a guy in America that's rebuilding a cb750, it had been stood for a few years. When he drained carbs 3 and 4 what came out was green like antifreeze. 1and 2 was yellow and varnished colour. His channels called Brick House Builds

moizeau wrote:That is scary Al. I've just mixed some Bardahl up and ran it through the ST and Zeph on a blat yesterday and am going to do the same with my various mowers, chainsaws and strimmers.
https://english.bardahl.fr/en-us/our-pr ... stabilizer
It reckons it's good for E10, so I've put that in......we will see

Read the safety data sheet for that stuff Pete. It kills 50% of rats at concentration XX per m3 (LC50) so could be usefull if youve got a kritter or varment problem
AL

Al wrote:

moizeau wrote:That is scary Al. I've just mixed some Bardahl up and ran it through the ST and Zeph on a blat yesterday and am going to do the same with my various mowers, chainsaws and strimmers.
https://english.bardahl.fr/en-us/our-pr ... stabilizer
It reckons it's good for E10, so I've put that in......we will see

Read the safety data sheet for that stuff Pete. It kills 50% of rats at concentration XX per m3 (LC50) so could be usefull if youve got a kritter or varment problem
AL

We've got 3 cats for that . It has got lots of warnings on the bottle about the dangers to people and the environment etc. so I'm hoping it'll work. My great uncle told me about the brand 30 years ago referring to when he saw it 30 years or so previously. In that case it was an oil additive that put a 'teflon' type coating on the inside of the engine (obviously not good for wet clutches). At the expo they ran 2 engines up, 1 with, 1 without, then drained the oil. The treated engine was still running 15 mins later!
Anyway, I'll see if it's worked later in the year. 10 euros for 250 litres of petrol treatment seems cheap especially if you can run it on the cheaper 95.

warren3200gt wrote:As I understand it both esso and shell premiums are e free but only in Midlands, South and South east.
South West, North East and west plus Scotland have e in all thier fuel. Don't know about Wales but probably contains leek extract.

Just go to your local air field and get 25 lts of avgas

compo z1r wrote:

warren3200gt wrote:As I understand it both esso and shell premiums are e free but only in Midlands, South and South east.
South West, North East and west plus Scotland have e in all thier fuel. Don't know about Wales but probably contains leek extract.

Just go to your local air field and get 25 lts of avgas

In Kent by Brands Hatch so not a problem for me although a trip to to Gatwick for jet fuel might be interesting
(a piston engine won't run on jet fuel but it sounds good)

I ran my LC on Avgas, not sure on the specs today but back in the early 90's it was high lead content 100 octane petrol, The LC loved it.