Noisy Alternator

[LTD Project]

Anyone had a case of noisy alternator, starts to make a buzzing, scratching sound a little when the indicators are on and even more so when the headlight is switched on? Alternator casing is otherwise quiet.

Bike: 1984 GPZ1100 Unitrack,

[z1bman]

starter clutch has come loose

[LTD Project]

Thanks
Used new parts from Z-Power on build, might I have fitted them wrong?

What is irritating the starter clutch when under headlamp load?

[z1bman]

did you use loctite on the allen bolts that hold the clutch to the back of the rotor

[LTD Project]

Good question, only way I will know is to have it apart and re-do it. Thanks

[LTD Project]

I for the life of me cannot get the rotor bolt undone... even with a compressed air impact wrench.

Anyone got a rotor holding tool/spanner thing in the York area that I can borrow? Or know any other tricks?

I need help please.

BTW, it does look like a couple of the clutch allen bolts are loose, so z1bman is probably correct, thanks for giving me the pointer.

[Skid Mark]

I for the life of me cannot get the rotor bolt undone... even with a compressed air impact wrench.

Anyone got a rotor holding tool/spanner thing in the York area that I can borrow? Or know any other tricks?

I made one up out of an old adjustable clamp. I took the swivel disc of the screw end and ground the ball down to fit snug in the hole of the rotor without damaging the magnet. Then drilled the flat end and tapped to M8. Ground a bolt and fitted. Works for me.

[Al]

You can also get that buzzing / whizzing sound if the steel wiring protector is not tucked behind the 'cast-in' nipples at its' lower / flappy end!
If this is the case; you will see a thin shiny 'ring' of polishing on the back radiused edge of the rotor drum.

Sounds like someone has used 'permanent' thread locker as opposed to 'non-permanent' to fit the centre fixing bolt. If this is the case you would normally have to heat the stuff up to xxx degrees' C to get it to release.

You will still need a 'holder' for the drum though and if trying to hold it to tighten the three screws for the starter clutch same thing applies i'm afraid.
If you use a ratchet strap or oil filter wrench with a strap / chain you will definately deform the drum and the magnets will fall out.
There is a commercially available holder and a few years ago you could still buy the correct KHI tool but i dont know about now.
I made my own and it worked for a long as i have needed it. Not near York i'm afraid or at least not untill perhaps nearer the potential for a visit to Croft if that actually happens.

https://www.cmsnl.com/products/flywheel ... 570011701/

AL

[LTD Project]

Thanks skid and Al

Actually got the rotor bolt out with a bloke called Percy Veerance, the appliance of heat and continued use of the air impact wrench.

Now just need to get the rotor off the crank taper.... I have what is meant to be the tool for this from Ralph, but apparently this doesnt work without an appropriate ball bearing between it and the crank end, which I do not have.

Anyway, small steps

[moizeau]

Tighten it up, I used an 18mm fine thread bolt? on my Gpz11 then a small tap, I was nervous

[LTD Project]

Al,

Your suggestion re "the steel wiring protector is not tucked behind the 'cast-in' nipples at its' lower / flappy end!
If this is the case; you will see a thin shiny 'ring' of polishing on the back radiused edge of the rotor drum", was spot on. Though a bugger to make it stay where it should be.

Whilst fannying around with the above, I noticed the stator was loose on all three allen bolts. I cant believe my assembly prowess to be that poor, but it looks like it was. Are these allen bolts meant to have some thread goo applied and is there a torque setting?

Lastly, although rotor not off taper yet, I think that z1bman might also be right regarding the starter clutch allen bolts as two out of the three of them do not protrude through their threaded holes as much as the third one (the one nearest front wheel in pic) does. Assuming they are the same length bolts, the offending two must have slackened of a tad....

I will only know when the rotor lets go of it grip on the taper, does heat help that too?

Thanks for all contributions to date!

[Al]

It does look like the wiring protector hit the rotor. It also looks like the stator hit the magnets!
Not that surprising the stator came loose because when they go in they are an impossibly tight fit on the cast boss in the casing and the torqe figure is very low and not getting them seated is most often the norm.
Take out the wiring protector and give it a little bending at the end. You should be able to tell if the starter clutch has loosened because you can get get a pry behind it and give it a small twist to check between rotor and clutch. The three allen screws need non permanent thread locker on there to keep them in place for the clutch, and the stator into the casing.

WRT the rotor; please dont insert the rear wheel spindle into it to remove it. Under no circumstances us anything to slide hammer the rotor off the crank taper. It would be better not to insert something into the thread and tap it. The factory manual specifically says hitting this way will de-magnetise the magnets. If you have a threaded 'extractor' tool,put it in there with a ball bearing or a stud in the crank thread, tighten it and leave it overnight for it to experience temperature changes. You may be lucky and this is the soft option. Put a large cloth in a box under it cos if it comes off it will hit the floor.
I dont recomment this; Put the rotor centre fixing bolt back in, turn until there is just one thread not engaged. Put the outer cover back on and exercise the starter motor a few times. It is the starter motor action and starter clutch which loosens the rotor on the crank! If it comes loose it will be obvious because it will sound like you have blown number one main bearing. (loud rumbling sound)
Stator bolts are 87 inch pounds. in/lbs which is approx equal to 7 ft/lbs
Starter clutch onto the rotor screws are 29 Foot pounds ft/lbs

It does look like the starter clutch screws have come loose. You will still need to be able to hold the rotor when tightening them.
This was my solution.

IMG_0530rotor holder.JPG (150.5 KiB) Viewed 1751 times

AL

[LTD Project]

Thanks for taking the time Al, much appreciated. I am in no rush so will sort a tool to do the job.

Do I take it you think the stator and rotor have come into contact, maybe damaging the stator? How can I best re-seat the stator to ensure that it will be central relative to the rotor?

thanks again

[Al]

Heat; the amount you may need runs the risk of softening the resin holding the magnets and there is a soft rubber damper immediately behind the rotor which could also get damaged!

I was looking at a score mark on the inside of the magnet in the picture. To get the stator seated you can press it very firmly and confirm with a soft drift to ensure its home before bolting it up. It is very tight but in that; the design is self aligning. If it has had contact it will be seen as the laminations pulling apart or scuff marks on the shiny outer surface or overheating marks like melted insulation on some segments of the stator or 'blueing'.
If there are score marks you could dress them out as there is no penalty, it not being permanently magnetised like the rotor. It would be obvious if you address the other issues and still have a grinding noise when its running again.

When i had a rotor, i used masking tape, gravity and araldite to fill the gaps between the magnets. May not help but it made me feel better.
AL

[DeadZedDave]

Re: "Now just need to get the rotor off the crank taper.... I have what is meant to be the tool for this from Ralph, but apparently this doesnt work without an appropriate ball bearing between it and the crank end, which I do not have"
You can find sellers on ebay who offer fast delivery on all sizes of single ball bearings. Not much money either !