Z900 A4 Engine replacement back into frame (Advice please)

[Gray17]

Hi Guys, Help please! so i have had my frame powder coated and the full engine vapour blasted, fully rebuilt engine and its now ready for re fitting back into frame. Hopefully without damaging either.
So i know the recomended way is to put frame on crntre stand and redt front of frame on axle stands or similat so its level, the 2 people manhandle it into frame. Now the Z900 engine a heavy lump so heavy i cant lift it fully assembled so had to lower from work table onto carpeted floor to fit barrells and head etc.
As im working alone i thought an easier way would be to lay engine on its side on a blanket then lower the frame onto it, the frame being easier to lift and wiggle around. I used this method for GT750 rebuild
So i taped up any sharp bits, put 2 thin dusters over engine and attempted to lower frame onto engine, i could not get it passed the sump filter bolt at the botton and not enough clearence at top, so off it came, removed sump filter and cam cover to give a bit more clearence, but still will not go in frame, it now seems to be jamming at the rear end of the cases. Anybody got any tips on doing this? Manuals are a bit vague on technique for this operation.
I know it came out, nothings changed dimension wise so it should go back in. Im wondering if id have been better doung it before re fitting cylinder head as more clearence? But to do that now would mean another new head gasket and re timing camshafts again so would rather not.
All help or comments appreciated
Thanks

[warren3200gt]

I always put the frame over the engine. As you say the frame is way lighter.

[r3sc]

Definitely lift the frame over the engine!

Although I’ve never done an A4, I’m pretty sure the engine exits and enters the frame from the right hand side of the frame on the Z1000A1 and Z650B.

You may struggle if you try to take it out or put it in from the left hand side as there are some subtle differences!

[Gray17]

Thanks Warren, i know the theory's sound its the method im lacking, so hoping someone can tell me the method, at moment the engine is laid on blanket and 2 blocks of wood, which hold the block clear of the ground level, then a further thicker block at the rear to lift the rear so again the engine is level as it would be if upright.
I would also point out i am lowering on the side with the engine mounts removed so it should go in, but wont?
I suspect this is another job thats easier the more you do it, but as this is my 1st time im stuck.

[warren3200gt]

Cam cover needs to be off to give enough room.

[Gray17]

Yes already removed cam cover and sump filter housing and bolt, to give more clearence, it seems to be catching at the rear where the rear of the crank cases sit onto the lower bracket, ive tried twisting it lowering the front, the rear, it just keeps on jamming where the welded gussett is. I'm wondering if you have to fit the rear 1st at 45deg then pivot the front of engine in? Cant do that on my own though? However if youve acomplished this lowering frame, similar to my method it must be possible. Rob bet you've done this 100s of times whats your tip?

[KevinH]

Have you already fitted the swing arm ? if you have try slackening it right off because it can just pull the frame in slightly.Good luck

[gray]

My tuppence worth having done it a few times. Laying the engine on its right side, and raised up on some wooden blocks, and drop the frame onto it . Helps having a mate , and axle stands /pile of old cushions to lay the frame on and wiggle it down gradually. I seem to remember there is a stage whereby the engine needs to be rolled back a bit ( ie pull the cylinder head studs towards the rear) and a stage where the rear bottom mounts need to be wiggled in bit by bit, side to side. If there's excess powder coating on the inner surfaces of the frame mounts the engine won't fit.
I've done it the other way too, using a trolley jack, wooden runners and supports and frame protection and sliding it in from the right. The engine still needs to be rotated anticlockwise a bit then snuggled into the lower rear mounts by wiggling.

[rpeters]

Usually I remove the cam cover and exhaust studs, roll the engine on the side so the clutch cover rests on a piece of 8x2 timber, and slide a piece of 4x2 timber under the cylinder head fins; holds the engine exactly right!.
Its a two man job really, you need to locate in the bottom rear mount first, but and a thick coat of powder coating can prevent prevent it locating.

Good luck...

[Gray17]

Thanks for the advice guys, I'll have another go at it today, if I don't succeed I'll have to get someone to help as its GOT to go in.
Had a look at powder coat doesn't look to be any thick bits looks fairly uniform, as for frame the only things fitted so far are centre stand (as need it once engine in to stand it on) and headstock, no swinging arm was going to fit that once engine in, along with the other components. Also it keeps frame as light as possible for adjusting. Tried removing exhaust studs cant shift most of them, tried double nut method and mole grips and water pump grips too, wont shift, even machinist who did cylinder head tried and snapped one so gave up, have wrapped masking tape around them to stop schaffing.
Think maybe being a bit ambitious attempting it on my own, some times that extra pair of hands guiding 1 side helps.
Will see how I get on. Least I know it definitely can nbe done this way
Thanks

[rpeters]

You need two people, if the frame doesn't hit the rear of the engine dead square it wont locate......

[Gray17]

Just re reading RPeters part, I have laid engine on its side points cover down but without the cover in place nor the points plate or cam screw either, I have then placed a 4 x 4 piece of timber under it to raise it off the floor at the front, then another 4 x 4 timber under head fins to raise that level, a further 4 x4 under the rear cases, this means the engine is clear of the floor at the 3 points by 4", I didn't get the 8 x 2 piece of timber, did you mean 8" long to raise rear up 8" off floor? If so I'll use 2 4 x 4 pieces one on top of each other if need be?
I then lower frame over rear part 1st then lower front part.
For some reason mine just refuses point blank to fit no matter how I wiggle it. Guess I'm just not doing it right. Silly thing is it came out really easily. I'm obviously not going to do it on my own, will. Have another go tomorrow eve when GF can give me hand.

[rpeters]

...Leave points cover on. the roll the engine over onto the 8"x2" square piece under clutch cover, then place a piece of 4"x2" under the fins. Holds the engine square. No need to raise it off the floor any higher as this gives you plenty of room to install the rear lower bolt, then the triangle bracket and the two bottom engine blind bolts.
Lower the frame slowly and with two people. nothing should be in the way or prevent you from locating the rear lower engine casing between the mounting lugs. The frame has to be square otherwise it just wont locate in the lugs.
Then roll the whole lot over upright and install the two long top bolts.

[Gray17]

Thanks for all the advice guys, it was exactly as you said, i was not getting it square, 2 people made the difference, engine now back in frame, just got to bolt it all up. Could lift it myself but not enough to keep it square when lowering, it is very tight.
Should be able to get on now.
Thanks to all for the advice, which as always is appreciated.