BS 34's

[Skid Mark]

I finally got to strip the carbs on a 1100R It bought recently. No.3 was leaking intermittently. I presumed it was a float valve issue. When I took them off and opened the bowl it turns out someone broke the leg that holds the bowl in place and stuck it with glue!
So, what are the options? I presume a repair is out. Does any one have a body for no. 3 ( I don't think they are interchangable.) or will I need to get a whole bank?
Moral of the story; don't go at old bikes on a bank holiday Friday unless you want your weekend ruined!!

[zed9]

You cold use liquid metal like epoxy resin thats supposed to be petrol proof and there is also some repair putty for petrol tanks on scumbay plus others, could build up quite a thick layer/blob around post, wont look too good though should do the job.
I would glue it with float bowl rod fitted to make sure it aligns ok when curing.

Not used either of these so can vouch how good/bad they are.

Euro car parts have V-Tech Rapid Steel tho dont say if its petrol proof

[Skid Mark]

Thanks Zed 9, I’ll try get a carb, but no harm playing around with it in the mean time. Not like I can make it much worst!

[BAFF1960]

I don't think any type of adhesive will remain stable in that environment. I think that drilling it and inserting an interference pin to secure the post might work but accuracy would be key to success.

[Skid Mark]

I don't think any type of adhesive will remain stable in that environment. I think that drilling it and inserting an interference pin to secure the post might work but accuracy would be key to success.

Thanks Baff, I agree. I think I might have sourced a damaged bank with a good no.3. I don’t fancy Percision engineering/watch making at this stage in life!

[Skid Mark]

I managed to get a bank of carbs for reasonable money. They are all pretty rough but no 3 body, which is what I want is ok. However on stripping and cleaning it appears some one stripped the slot head on the pilot jet. I don’t fancy drilling it and have had extractors break off before. So, I will try it as is. I sprayed break cleaner in to it and it does pass out the little vent on the air box side intake. Are these pilots generally the same size or do they vary. The main jets the original cards are 132, the mains on the donor are 122, so planed to swop all the internals. Is it viable just leave the pilot is place?

[Al]

In the factory manual the pilots for Z1000J and Z1000R are both listed as 37.5. The Z1100R1 supplement in the later Unitrak manual says they are 37.5 also so you should be good to go. You could confirm the size by taking the other ones out of the replacement carb set and see what you have. Are the 'spare parts set' of carbs from an Z1100R1? Or are they a set from a J model. J model ones may have the large triangular (round with three screws) plate screwed to the sides with the coasting enrichener pump diaphragm under it!!!!! If ithey are they will also have four intake drillings in the atmospheric side (airbox) side of the bodies.
As to whether youre going to get away with not taking it out to clean it ~ is anyones guess but if you do have to eventually ultra-sonically clean them then that process is magic for loosening stuck stuff.
If you are spraying brake cleaner or compressed air through the pilot jet you need to confirm that it is coming out of the microscopic drilling in the engine side of the carb venturi. The hole is invisible until you see it working. You will also need to then take out the fuel mixture screw on the side and confirm that liquid or air comes out of that doing the same process with brake cleaner or compressed air! You may need to temporarily block off the air intake 'port' in the airbox side of the body as it is larger and will bleed from there rather than the tiny bleed hole where the butterfly valve touches down.
AL

[Skid Mark]

Al,
Great advice as usual. I forgot about the tiny hole. Unfortunately I put the carb body in the UScleaner and gave it a good run and it was nice and hot. That was before I tried take out the jet.. the damage was already done. The slot is gone. I was tempted to grind a small screw driver into a tapered square and try take it out but I would get 1 chance and 1 chance only so I think I will try it as is for now. They don’t have the three screw plate that are on the j’s( and R1’s Ithink)
Please God the jet will be clear and I can get this going. I’m losing patience with old bikes!

[Skid Mark]

Carbs all cleaned and reassembled. Jets on both sets are all the same size. Couldn't get the pilot jet out of the replacement body but it is passing carb cleaner so it should be ok. I put them back on the bike and the bike is hard start. It seems to start on an open trottle with either an open or closed choke, depending on its humour, after a lot of coaxing. I checked the plugs after nearly flattening the battery and they were dry. and brown/black. When she does start it is instant, with no spluttering or back fire and will tick over at under 1K when warmed up. Just hard to get her lit.
Any suggestions?
Should have said, It was hard enough start before also, but I put it down to the original issue with no. three carb and also a good clean being needed.

[Al]

If it has become predictably reluctant to start; nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, everything ~ i think its unlikely to be a fuel issue. Its been a while since i had CV's but with the bike in general i got into little habits, some of which now wont go away. I turn on the fuel as soon as practical, i exercise the key switch four or five times and also the engine stop / run switch. If it wont start immediately i turn it off and on again and try it again. I would pull full choke to get it to fire and immediately back to half choke when it started for probably 30 seconds max. Anyone mention OCD?
If the carbs are set up perfectly it will pop and bag a little after choke untill it is fully warm.

Reason for the performance; fuel on as soon as,... lets the level get set and if its going to flood the carbs i want to know sooner than later. Ignition and run switches gave me monkey business for quite some time and after erradicating numerous faults i did or didnt have with coils, HT leads, caps and plugs something else had to be causing it. The contacts of both switches were green and frothy and had been for many years whilst it was laid up. Both my switched were capable of being taken apart. Youre run switch will be but dont know about the ignition switch,... J1 is different!
Mine had Dyna 'S' which was also very old and less than perfect and if you have the CDI set-up you might look there too as that will be 40 years old now. With the Dyna 2000, if it wont start immediately, i have to switch it off and back on again as it seems to loose it reference point when you crank it for a bit. It has electronic advance not mechanical. 50% of the time its first prod, 50% it doesnt want to know so a re-set and its always good. So i short-cut that process and if it want go instantly, i turn it off and back on and thats usually more than enough.
AL

[Grog]

Hello mate; As Al says, If it's all or nothing then I's be looking somewhere else than carbs for the problem - I'd expect the bike to at least be trying to fire if it was a shortage of/too much fuel getting through. Also, you say the bike was hard to start before the carb shenanigans and irrespective of choke position, but is happy once running.

Al pointed towards the ignition system. Perhaps the amount of juice being drawn to turn the bike over is leading to a weak spark at the plugs which would give you your problem; once the bike is running, the starter motor is not drawing power and the alternator is feeding the electrical system then the plugs are getting a decent spark again. J/R motors I'm not too familiar with, but it may be worth having a look down that route - or someone else can tell me I'm talking hoop!

TTFN Grog

[Skid Mark]

I turn on the fuel as soon as practical, i exercise the key switch four or five times and also the engine stop / run switch. If it wont start immediately i turn it off and on again and try it again. I would pull full choke to get it to fire and immediately back to half choke when it started for probably 30 seconds max. Anyone mention OCD? I know! I Have CDO! Its like OCD but in Alphabetical order!!
If the carbs are set up perfectly it will pop and bag a little after choke until it is fully warm. I didn't find this. she will rev about 1.5K or a little higher on half choke and then idle at just under 1K when choke is closed.

Reason for the performance; fuel on as soon as,... lets the level get set and if its going to flood the carbs i want to know sooner than later. Ignition and run switches gave me monkey business for quite some time and after erradicating numerous faults i did or didnt have with coils, HT leads, caps and plugs something else had to be causing it. The contacts of both switches were green and frothy and had been for many years whilst it was laid up. Both my switched were capable of being taken apart. Youre run switch will be but dont know about the ignition switch,... J1 is different!
Mine had Dyna 'S' which was also very old and less than perfect and if you have the CDI set-up you might look there too as that will be 40 years old now. With the Dyna 2000, if it wont start immediately, i have to switch it off and back on again as it seems to loose it reference point when you crank it for a bit. It has electronic advance not mechanical. 50% of the time its first prod, 50% it doesnt want to know so a re-set and its always good. So i short-cut that process and if it want go instantly, i turn it off and back on and thats usually more than enough.
AL

Thanks Al,
I dred the thoughts of an electric issue. I keep letting the magic smoke out of those boxes! I don't think the carbs are too far off as when she does run she is pretty faultless.

[Skid Mark]

Hello mate; As Al says, If it's all or nothing then I's be looking somewhere else than carbs for the problem - I'd expect the bike to at least be trying to fire if it was a shortage of/too much fuel getting through. Also, you say the bike was hard to start before the carb shenanigans and irrespective of choke position, but is happy once running.

Al pointed towards the ignition system. Perhaps the amount of juice being drawn to turn the bike over is leading to a weak spark at the plugs which would give you your problem; once the bike is running, the starter motor is not drawing power and the alternator is feeding the electrical system then the plugs are getting a decent spark again. J/R motors I'm not too familiar with, but it may be worth having a look down that route - or someone else can tell me I'm talking hoop!

TTFN Grog

When I open the trottle she does turn over quicker, I think due to less vacuum so prehaps this helps the spark but it can take an eternity so there must be another issue. Plenty of fuel as the smell gets very strong after a few minutes of turning over.... and then bang she is off. And never a splutter or dying off once running, surly an intermittent electric fault would be noticed during running?

[Grog]

Yes, opening the throttle will help spin the engine marginally easier - it's taking less effort to drag air through the carbs. Unless you're absolutely drowning the chambers in petrol though, it won't affect the plugs. If there's plenty of fuel then sparks are what's needed. I would agree that an intermittent electric fault would (might) also show up during normal running, which is why I suggested it could be a problem with weak spark during startup because lots of power is being directed elsewhere. In the granny sucking eggs department, have you tried whipping a plug or two out to see if they are actually sparking while you're cranking the starter? After that it'll probably be time to unleash the multimeter...

TTFN Grog

[Skid Mark]

Yes, opening the throttle will help spin the engine marginally easier - it's taking less effort to drag air through the carbs. Unless you're absolutely drowning the chambers in petrol though, it won't affect the plugs. If there's plenty of fuel then sparks are what's needed. I would agree that an intermittent electric fault would (might) also show up during normal running, which is why I suggested it could be a problem with weak spark during startup because lots of power is being directed elsewhere. In the granny sucking eggs department, have you tried whipping a plug or two out to see if they are actually sparking while you're cranking the starter? After that it'll probably be time to unleash the multimeter...

TTFN Grog

Cheers Grog, I went home at lunch and tried it before I left, started second tip of the starter. Tried several times after a good run and each time fired instanly. It doesn't always do this, but I did have the battery on charge since morning. So that might be part of it, but have had the issue after fully charging battery aswell so who knows.
I'll check sparks and current first chance. I have a strater to replace on another bike in the mean time, If I get that sorted atleast I will have reliable (I hope) two wheels.