Help with spoke length for a 18" front z1000 wheel.

[Z1streetfighter71]

Im looking for help to figure out the length of spokes i need to find to lace an 18 rim onto a Z1000 hub. Is it just as easy as half the difference between 18 and 19.. for arguments sake lets say an inch is 26mm (apologies to any engineers reading this). So 13mm less than a standard spoke or as close to that as possible. Or am i missing a glaring mistake in that thought. Any help or advice is always appreciated.
Edit.just after typing this i realized that the angle of the spoke will null and void half the difference. If anyone knows of a 40 hole front wheel with a slightly larger hub size that that spoke set would work maybe?

[Z1streetfighter71]

So the Z1 spoke set might be the answer but might not. the Z1 hub is 186mm and the Z1000 is 142mm giving a 44mm difference, they might be too long. Anyone know what a H2 hub is?

[DeadZedDave]

Looks like c. 178 ~ 180 mm inner and outer.
Thats a standard looking chrome rim on a Z1000a hub and measuring the assembly with a tape measure. Middle of dia. of cranked end of spoke in hub to back of the nipple. Should be right give or take a mm

[Z1streetfighter71]

Looks like c. 178 ~ 180 mm inner and outer.
Thats a standard looking chrome rim on a Z1000a hub and measuring the assembly with a tape measure. Middle of dia. of cranked end of spoke in hub to back of the nipple. Should be right give or take a mm

Thanks Dave! now to find a spoke set that is that length. Ill keep you posted if i find aut.

[DeadZedDave]

You could try 1975 KH400 front set - possibly same as KH250 same year.

[Z1streetfighter71]

You could try 1975 KH400 front set - possibly same as KH250 same year.

And Zpower have sets in stock, score again, thanks Dave! Rim is being set off to be blasted this weekend al going well.

[DeadZedDave]

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Pic. of built up wheel

[Z1streetfighter71]

IMG_0539.jpeg
Pic. of built up wheel

Is this an 18" rim Dave? What im looking to do is build a cafe racer form an 82 KZ750 twin Csr and a bunch of spares that are of no practical use to anyone right now. I want to run 18 front and back ( two 18 rear rims ) with matched tyres. Id like to get the frame, bodywork and running gear on by the end of the year and work on the engine over the winter.

[DeadZedDave]

Yes ! Thats an 18" front I used on my own Z1000 together with a standard 18" rear. Downside is its only a 1.85 which limits tyre size a bit. I ran the bike on it for a year or so back in the day though. Its actually just a KH400 wheel
As for using a rear rim on the front, I'm no wheel builder so I can't comment definitively, however, the standard 1000A1/750B rear hub has a much bigger diameter in the drive side compared to the front hub diameter and so far as I know this will have an effect on the spoke angles, which MIGHT BE significant for a chrome plated rim. Years ago I paid an old experienced wheel builder to lace up some alloy rims on some random hubs and afterwards he told me he had needed to re-drill all of the spoke holes in the rim to "correct" for the spoke angles - I think he said something about oversized spoke nipples too. At the time I wasn't too bothered - it was cheap as chips..... I doubt it would be these days though and if it needs done THIS way it'd best be sorted before you re-chrome the rim ! It would be good if someone else could confirm they've put an 18" rear on a front hub before ..... !
Sounds like a nice project though Be good to see how you get on. You could always search out a KH400 front wheel and use that if you can make do with a 100/90 x 18 up front ( in theory eve this tyre is oversize on a 1.85 but it worked for me )
Good luck with the project ! (sorry my own wheel is not for sale !)
Dave

[Z1streetfighter71]

Yes ! Thats an 18" front I used on my own Z1000 together with a standard 18" rear. Downside is its only a 1.85 which limits tyre size a bit. I ran the bike on it for a year or so back in the day though. Its actually just a KH400 wheel
As for using a rear rim on the front, I'm no wheel builder so I can't comment definitively, however, the standard 1000A1/750B rear hub has a much bigger diameter in the drive side compared to the front hub diameter and so far as I know this will have an effect on the spoke angles, which MIGHT BE significant for a chrome plated rim. Years ago I paid an old experienced wheel builder to lace up some alloy rims on some random hubs and afterwards he told me he had needed to re-drill all of the spoke holes in the rim to "correct" for the spoke angles - I think he said something about oversized spoke nipples too. At the time I wasn't too bothered - it was cheap as chips..... I doubt it would be these days though and if it needs done THIS way it'd best be sorted before you re-chrome the rim ! It would be good if someone else could confirm they've put an 18" rear on a front hub before ..... !
Sounds like a nice project though Be good to see how you get on. You could always search out a KH400 front wheel and use that if you can make do with a 100/90 x 18 up front ( in theory eve this tyre is oversize on a 1.85 but it worked for me )
Good luck with the project ! (sorry my own wheel is not for sale !)
Dave

Hmm.. didnt think of that, might have to butt up the nipples first then spokes. Iv done a visual there and there does seem to be angle differences. I could buy an aluminum set but that defeats the spare parts recycle and i have a DID 18 set but they are 2.15 and 1.85 and that messes up the matched tyre thing.. Rims are rusted chrome right now and will be black so thats not a concern. Lots to think about and thanks for all the info!

[DeadZedDave]

Just thinking a bit more a out the idea of using a standard back rim; if I look at the "disc side" of the standard back hub then the diameter is not much different to the front hub I think.(?) On this side I'd expect you'd probably be close enough to lace up to the front hub with the spokes discussed. Now, what I'm thinking is this - and maybe theres an expert who can tell me I'm wrong - HOWEVER, I never heard or saw it written that a Z1000A spoked rim had a "disc side" and a "drive side" I have never seen it written that it has a direction of rotation THEREFORE I AM GOING TO SUGGEST THAT BOTH SIDES OF THE RIM / BOTH SETS OF SPOKE HOLES MUST BE THE SAME i.e. you can lace the rim either way round onto the BACK hub.
If this is true then logic says you should be o.k. to lace a z1000A rear onto a front hub the way you want it. Got to be worth a try ?
If we wanted things easy, we'd all just build standard bikes

[Z1streetfighter71]

You seem to be doing all the work here for me Dave for that I am grateful! So the spokes have been ordered the rims are being sent off for Blasting tomorrow. The front hub is already good to go just need to sort out the rear one as there is a fair amount of chrome lifting off the steel section. The only diversion I’ve done is I’ve decided to opt to buy z1000 front spokes knowing that they will be too long. Going to lace the wheel with them on it to get a sense of how longer they’re going to be then re-tap each spoke down the length that it needs to drop and then cut off the excess. Thing is I’m unfamiliar with the other set of spokes and I was just worried that they might be not as strong. I know I’m probably wrong on that fact but better safe than sorry.

[DeadZedDave]

It's easy for me to sit here and write about it - The hard work is doing the job !
It would be good to see it when its done - I never much liked that narrow front rim myself. If I ever find the time I might build one myself....

[Z1streetfighter71]

It's easy for me to sit here and write about it - The hard work is doing the job !
It would be good to see it when its done - I never much liked that narrow front rim myself. If I ever find the time I might build one myself....

Should be on it in the next 3 weeks, ill report back soon as the wheel is laced and find the funds for tyres and tubes..