Cold starting and weird timing issues

[Dark Skies]

I've had the KZ1000 CSR M1 on the road for about two weeks since the spruce up (projects) for shakedown running. Nothing was done to the engine since I bought it at 16,000 miles apart from ditching the USA anti-smog cam cover for a normal one off a Z1000J.

Anyway, today I thought I'd check the valve clearances and see whether anything needed to be adjusted. I tried to follow the normal procedure for checking exhaust valves 1 and 2 as laid out in the manual. I.e turning the crankshaft clockwise to bring the T| mark on the timing rotor into alignment with the crankcase timing mark with the IN <- mark (on inlet camshaft sprocket) pointing to the rear and level with the top of the cylinder head and the EX -> mark (on exhaust camshaft sprocket) pointing to the front and level with the top of the cylinder head.

Unfortunately things didn't quite work to plan. With the T| mark aligned with the crankcase mark I'm finding that the EX -> mark is pointing at a slight angle about 5 mm above the cylinder head casing whilst the IN <- mark is 5mm below the cylinder head casing instead of level as it should be. It looks to me that to get the marks aligned properly I need to rotate the camshaft sprockets forward by one pin on the camchain.

This came as something of a surprise to me because the bike has been running fine throughout the rev range and pulls strongly. There are no coughs and splutters or weird mechanical noises. The only issue I have had is with very poor cold starting in the mornings. Once warm she fires right up. Plugs are all the same pale tan colour.

The bike has done only 16,000 miles so I wouldn't have thought it had had a new camchain so early in its life with only two previous owners. I guess it is possible that someone had the camshafts out to replace the valve shims because they didn't have the right tool and got the timing mark relationships out by one chain link pin. Seems a labour intensive way of going about it though.

My other thought was that maybe this had been done deliberately. The CSR and K1 models have milder cams than the J1 engines and I wondered whether this might be some slight tweak that some people might employ to pep things up a bit. That seems unlikely-ish but who knows?

Anyhow - being as the cam timing is so slightly out I was wondering if it was sufficient to have caused any damage - and if it had shouldn't it have manifested itself in a noticeable way?

[Robw]

I have had exactly the same thing on my bike. Everything was set up per the manual, I think the case is the tensioning of the cam chain as it pushes on one side causing the crank to be come retarded. I have undone the tensioner and it all looks fine, but as soon as the tensioner tightens it does it again. I have rotated the crank, nothing touches, so I am prepared to leave it for the time being.

Rob

[Al]

One tooth on the HY-VO chain is worth about 6mm at the outer edge of the cam timing mark stamped on the cam wheels.

I would be tempted to say that this is down to stretch in the chain and wear in the sprockets and grooving of the front tensioner / guide blade, since both cams are retarded, that said, you should not set the valve timing to the 'advance and retard unit' per-sey as they suffer from backlash in the mounting. You really need to confirm that the 'T' mark is indexed to actual TDC by setting up a dial gauge through the spark plug hole or verdict clock on the piston crowns with the head off.


AL

[Dark Skies]

I have had exactly the same thing on my bike. Everything was set up per the manual, I think the case is the tensioning of the cam chain as it pushes on one side causing the crank to be come retarded. I have undone the tensioner and it all looks fine, but as soon as the tensioner tightens it does it again. I have rotated the crank, nothing touches, so I am prepared to leave it for the time being.

Rob

Strange. At present the T| mark is aligned with the crankcase mark with the IN<- EX-> marks still a tad cockeyed. I've pulled the tensioner off and had I'm currently umming and ahhing over whether I should unbolt the exhaust cam and rotate the sprocket forwards by one pin - count back the 44 pins and do the same to the inlet. It's something that sounds like 'a good idea' whilst kicking back with a smoke and a beer but I'm loathe to fiddle with these things lest I end up having the chain come away from the crankshaft sprocket and all the fun that entails trying to get it back on.

[Dark Skies]

One tooth on the HY-VO chain is worth about 6mm at the outer edge of the cam timing mark stamped on the cam wheels.

I would be tempted to say that this is down to stretch in the chain and wear in the sprockets and grooving of the front tensioner / guide blade, since both cams are retarded, that said, you should not set the valve timing to the 'advance and retard unit' per-sey as they suffer from backlash in the mounting. You really need to confirm that the 'T' mark is indexed to actual TDC by setting up a dial gauge through the spark plug hole or verdict clock on the piston crowns with the head off.


AL

Having read this I nipped out into the garage and looked at the amount of retardation - 6 mm seems about right. I can't vouch for the state of the tensioner because I can't see it from looking into the camchain tunnel with a torch. However, the blade set in the roof of the cam cover is in excellent shape with no wear groove in it at all which, I'd hope, gives some indication as to the state of the tensioner blade. Sprocket teeth all look to be in good shape - no obvious wear polishing marks. Isn't 16,000 miles a bit early for the kind of stretch and wear you describe? I seem to recall my ZRX had about 32,000 (HARD) miles on the clock before the chain needed replacing.

[Al]

As a suggestion; pull the bolt (withdraw bolt) in the centre of the advance and retard then wind it back in loosely. Try to turn the A and R on its' taper against the key way. If it is worn then that will be self evident. If it is then the dial gauge through the plug hole will reveal actual TDC.

I dont honestly know what the wear rate is, or the interval for change of the chain; based on mileage. However didnt you say that you had changed the cam cover. Does this cam cover have your original top guide blade or is it the one that came with the new cover that you are using. ie. are they contemporary?


AL

[Dark Skies]

As a suggestion; pull the bolt (withdraw bolt) in the centre of the advance and retard then wind it back in loosely. Try to turn the A and R on its' taper against the key way. If it is worn then that will be self evident. If it is then the dial gauge through the plug hole will reveal actual TDC.

I dont honestly know what the wear rate is, or the interval for change of the chain; based on mileage. However didnt you say that you had changed the cam cover. Does this cam cover have your original top guide blade or is it the one that came with the new cover that you are using. ie. are they contemporary?


AL

I'll see if I can get hold of a dial guage and try this - once I've reset and replaced the tensioner. The top guide was swapped over from the original cam cover to the J1 cover to keep things contemporary at the time. Cheers.