Nearly set the z650 on fire.... Starter issues?

[mothra]

Ok, current situation is as follows. Bike is almost entirely done. Wiring works, brakes work, all bits are bolted on. All I have to do is start the thing and balance carbs/tweak ignition timing etc.

But the starter motor won't do anything - it whines, but doesn't seem to move. I wasn't too worried as I thought it was a battery problem.

The process kind of went:

Just bought a new odyssey battery, fitted it...
Makes a louder whine, let's keep hitting the button and see if it moves...
I can smell burning...
I can see smoke...
Stopped trying to turn it over and the starter motor lead was very hot.

Bearing in mind I'm learning all this as I go, I'm worried that the starter clutch is not working - does that make sense? I don't want it to be this as that would be another engine strip. I'm desparately trying to be ready for Guy's berkshire meet on sunday and Ace cafe next week.

Guy has a local friend who can probably sort me out with a replacement starter motor, lead, solenoid - but from the symptoms above, any ideas on what the issue is?

Thanks,

Stu

[tlc]

Something is making your motor reluctant to spin. Therefore it draws too much current and the lead gets hot.

I suspect the motor is not moving freely enough. Did you strip the motor ? or did you strip the starter clutch assembly. Tightness could be there.

[PAULJAC47]

Starter motors are not rated to run continually and should only be used for a couple of seconds at a time or can get hot and burn out it sound like your starter clutch to me common, on z650, engine out i am afraid i am told you can get to it while engine in situ ,but i reckon this would be like taking your tonsils out through your backside!

[Pigford]

Just uase the kick starter... Much cooler (this day & age) & easy peasy

[ted1r]

But Pigford its such a drama taking the seat off everytime

Ted

[mothra]

Its an 81 engine, so no kickstart.

I'm also worried it's the starter clutch. If so, obviously won't be making the Ace. I tidied up the starter motor, but didn't strip it. I'm sorting some parts to try swapping, if none of those help it'll be the engine out again option....

I'm assuming that turning the engine over by hand is unlikely to help with any starter clutch issues?

Thanks for the help guys - I'll let you know....

[zedrider]

ye gods and little fishes what prat desided that bikes dont need kick starts ? they will be doing away with the starter handle on cars next . remove chrome cover over starter motor undo the two long bolts holding the starter to the engine case . then put a screw driver over the two termals or the starter solonoid . and see how freely it turns with out the load on it . the cable should not get so hot as its only turning the starter and not the whole engine . make sure the starter case is earthed .

[PAULJAC47]

If it is case of engine out and new starter clutch be aware that the shaft the starter clutch grips on can in some cases become eliptical!!! if this has happened a new starter clutch will not cure,the only way to cure is to remove shaft and replace or dress up true on lathe.hope not for your sake but i had this happen to me!!! Good luck Paul J....

[Rich]

Check the condition of the starter cable and the main earth as well, both of these will also give problems if they are oxidising.

[Taffus]

have you tried bump starting it? It may help free up the internals????

[GUYZED]

Stu-If you need to get hold of Matt best do it quick as he's off to the USA very soon.

[mothra]

Right, update for anyone with the same issue....

I came to the conlcusion it wasn't starter clutch as it seems when that goes, the starter spins, but engine doesn't. Took starter out, confirmed that starter clutch spun (one way). Hooked starter up direct to a battery, same whine, no movement.

A mechanically apt friend ( Most useful commodity on the planet ) ripped the starter motor apart and found the lead from the positive post had broken away (possibly caused by a slackening off of the second nut on the post) and welded itself to the armature, causing hiroshima level carnage inside. careful application of heat removed all the extraneous solder and allowed the lead to be welded back in place, moments later the bike is turning over....

[mothra]

Guy, I had spoken to Mat and he'd offered to line some parts up, but ran out of time... in good shape at the moment so no worries...

[Taffus]

Well done stu, picked up another 650 project last week

[mothra]

Any pictures/details ?

Mine is actully running now, and quite nicely. Had a quick spin up and down the road, but had to be very careful as no front brakes as yet... Still on track for the Ace somehow, but have absolutely no margin for error as off sailing for the last three days of the week...