Z1000J Starter Clutch - Flywheel

[LeeJackson]

Gents

After only 1500 Miles my Starter Clutch has rattled itself loose off the Flywheel, which I gather is fairly common to happen, but obviously would rather avoid having to sort it again so soon. So apart from a bit of Thread Lock does anyone have any success stories of how to make sure it doesn't come loose again? I was wondering about adding a spring washer instead of the standard 2mm thick black washers if I can squeeze one in and using high strength threadlock, but maybe there is a better solution? I have an Electrixworld Flywheel fitted which has also been damaged slightly so needs replaced now too.

Cheers
Lee

[tlc]

Hopefully Buzzard or Z1015 will be along to give the definitive answer Lee.

[z1bman]

fit two of these
https://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/p/sc ... rrency=GBP

[Al]

The Electrex drive flange is thicker than the standard so if its come undone something isnt right. I have been very fortunate with mine but the problems i had with both mine and Fatty's Z1R drag bike were down to the 3 fixing screws. Have yours been replaced with black or self colour high tensile? The original screws are like cast iron with no discernable ductility. I suspect HT screws are too ductile (stretchy). I replaced both with the originals and problems went away in both cases. For the same reason i wouldnt use cut spring anti shake locking washers. They are soft and they spread. I have not used threadlock but 'permanent' would be a good idea together with the full circle Schnorr washers above.

AL

[LeeJackson]

AL

Thanks - Good advise as always I will order a pack of these now. When I disassembled it had 3 12.9 Zinc Socket Caps installed - I'm not sure what standards would be? I can order some of the originals though. I can easily get some of them. Also noted that looks like only 2 of the three Black 2mm thick washers were actually fitted which seems strange. The metal tab that holds the alternator wires in place was also mashed up and must have ben fouling before breaking off and maybe what has broken the magnet and caused a bit of extra vibration which hasnt helped..

[LeeJackson]

By the looks of it the Standard ones are 10.9 so will use some of them. Plus High Strength Locktite and the Washers - Should be good hopefully!

[Al]

Sorry Lee ignore all that. I thought you meant Electrex race alternator. I guess you mean Electrex GO3 or what ever they call it???
Yes the standard screws are those zinc plated, tough as sprocket teeth, socket caps that look like they came from Aldi!
They are what i put back in because they have no stretch. Been back in for 8 years with no issues to date touch wood.
If you could hear an intermittent metal on metal grinding noise, it was the wiring guard hitting the rotor. There are two teeny weeny nipples cast into the alloy cover and the wiring shield must sit behind them or it will catch the rotor and get destroyed.
If this is a GO3 or what ever they cal it, it was spec'd for the 1000 J and a 500 Kwak as well. It will likely have a keyway in it which the original KOKUSAN rotor did not. On the EX500 (?) there may be a keyway, i cant say but the 1000J rotor requires taper lock to hold it in place as well as 118lbs/ft of torque. I have known the keyway to split open on a 1000J using the Electrex GO3 when tightened to that torque.
I would be inclined to look closely at the nose of the rotor and see if its split. This may require you to put it back on and torque it fully.

AL

[LeeJackson]

AL

Yes indeed sorry its a G03 Rotor - I just ordered a New One to replace this one since the Magnet was damaged. I suspect the Magnet got chipped when I removed the Cover rather than during operation must have come off a bit too sideways with the cover! OK So I will stick with the standard screws and hopefully these washers will fit in behind for some extra protection along with the High Strength lock.

Yeah the Metal Plate is mangled on the part shown here, I was planning to just remove the mangled part as looks like the long arm part doesn't really do much once installed as should be well clear or the wheel itself by then. Perhaps caught on the raised weight I assume on the Flywheel itself and hasn't been doing anything for a while as was bent right over itself.

No signs of any cracking on the flywheel itself and it had not come loose, just the Starter Clutch 3 bolts had. It doesn't look like it was held on with any form of locking compound. I guess I need a Retaining compound for that rather than threadlock?

Cheers
Lee

[Al]

That is a bit odd, its usually the foot part that suffers as a result of not being tucked in properly. Sod to get off and on as it snatches out of youre hand one way and comes off like a bomb the other.
I would go with the standard screws, Schnoor or equivalent washers and permanent threadlock just for those three screws. Havnt seen it for a while but thought the counterbores for the heads of the socket caps were a pretty close fit so you may struggle with broad flat washers.
As for the rotor onto the crank nose i doubt i'd bother with bearing fit or the like on the understanding that it has a keyway slot. Normally you lap the rotor on if it needs it. Put it in place and give it a thump. If it grips that way, it will grip under torque loading. If it bounces back at you then more lapping required. Keyway cut ones, i really couldn't say as i have not used one.
Matter of interest; does that stator winding pass a short to earth test? it all looks a bit crispy
AL

[LeeJackson]

Cheers Al, ok understood on the flywheel and lapping will check new one is ok. The last one was not on with anything either. I am suspecting the tab maybe just got bent when it was being put back together but you would think it would have been noticed as a bit of a shove to bend that out of the way. Guess I’ll never know.

Not sure but I will check it electrically! Good point!

Cheers
Lee

[Mr Bump]

Choose your loctite with care.

Loctite 243 is standard bolt retainer and will probably do the job just fine, especially on a countersunk screw.

Loctite 270 is stud retainer and will definitely do the job, though it might be a bit much as you're likely to struggle to get a cross head countersunk screw undone should you need to get it apart in the future.

Loctite 648 is bearing retainer and it will definitely not ever come out if you use that. It will release if you apply a LOT of heat. You can use it to stick a front sprocket onto a badly worn gearbox spline if needs must.

Loctite 222 is used to secure very small fasteners or things that need regular adjustment. Ive (because I'm a nerd) just done a test - you can use it on pilot screws and 18 months later they'll come undone just fine. Might seem like madness (I tried it on a scrap carb first), but it means no pissing about with lost springs and pattern o rings that don't fit, just use a drop of that stuff- it'll seal the air path down the thread and stop the screw from vibrating out of position.

Olly

[LeeJackson]

Olly

Thanks for that that was very useful and the idea for using on Air/Pilot screw is an interesting one as it will indeed resolve a lot of problems see with these pattern kits! I will try it next set of Carbs that I need to rebuild.

AL - you were right that alternator is toast - I have no idea how it was even charging but needs to be replaced. Unfortunately Elextrixworld out of stock so I will need to order an alternative make.

Cheers
Lee

[Al]

Lee they are showing 21 in stock on the website.
I believe the ones ZPOWER sell come from there as do any number of suppliers on EBAY and in Europe.
If none of these pan out i may have a good secend hand one you could borrow until they come back on stream.
Working 24/7 just now so no chance i will get to the PO so by the time you send a courier and then send it back it will be the same price as the 'Pumped up' costs of the ones in other locations if you see what i mean.

AL

https://www.electrexworld.co.uk/cgi-bin ... ml#SID=200

Edit; Thats thrown me they also list a G03 (6 in stock apparently) which is a different size to the one i mentioned above.
Fairly sure G03 is correct and it does give sizes which would mean they have incorrectly listed z1000JKR in the MKII and ST list.
https://www.electrexworld.co.uk/acatalo ... ml#SID=200

[LeeJackson]

Al

There listings are really confusing! Defiantly an error in the first one. I was thinking its a G9 it needs as that's what their Hi Power one led me to. Let me try Zed Power see if they have in stock.

Cheers
Lee

[LeeJackson]

Looking again G03 seems right indeed Al - Im going to call them tomorrow to be sue and will mention the mistakes in the listings.