GPZ1100B1 cam timing advice needed

[JimBoUK]

Hi all,

Tonight I put the camshafts back in the engine.
I followed the manual aligning the cam shaft marks when the timing mark was on 1 4 T. Then I set the exhaust cam as per the manual 44 pins back. All looked good.
After tightening it all up I fitted the tensioner and turned the engine all the way round back to the 1 4 T mark.
I now doubt it is right.
It looks like both cams might be one pin back on the chain but if I take it apart and rotate the cams clockwise by one pin it might look like they are too far clockwise.
Hope that makes sense.
Also it’s a brand new cam chain.
Any suggestions ?

Thanks

[zed1015]

The EX cam mark should be closer to the gasket face but that is determined by the the deck height and whether the head has been skimmed etc.
I would move it to the next pin and have it slightly below the gasket face as this is less degrees out than current and almost certainly the correct position with the new chain .
The inlet timing at 44 t back from this will be correct in relation to the exhaust but not in the correct position until the cam cover has been fitted as this pushes the chain down and pulls the inlet sprocket clockwise.
The tensioner must be removed before fitting the cover .

[Coose]

To support the comments above of our esteemed colleague, when setting the cam timing on a J-onwards motor you must have the top camchain guide in place. I use an old US-spec cam cover that I chopped up, with a section of old gasket under the cover and the guide fitted in place. Only after fitting this do I fit the tensioner and set the cam timing.

Others (such as Al) have made their own bracketery to replicate the guide being in place - I'm sure he had a thread on it somewhere.

The top guide takes some tension and guides the chain between the two sprockets, and without it your inlet timing will definitely be retarded.

Once the timing is set you can carefully remove the tensioner and whatever you are using to hold the top guide in place (or replicate it being there), fit the cam cover and then the tensioner again.

[Mr Bump]

If you have access to a DTI (or want to buy a cheap one) you could try finding 'true' tdc.

The timing marks on the ignition advancer can be inaccurate as the advancer isn't a snug fit on the roll pin/index feature on the crank, so there's at least 2 degrees of float when the bolt is loose. When I set mine using a dti the advancer marks aligned correctly when the advancer was exactly in the middle of its range of float (as you would expect). You may find if you loosen yours, find the centre of the range of float then try and keep it there when you tighten the bolt things make a little more sense.

As Z1015 says, the exhaust cam marks should be as close as possible to aligned with the surface of the head. After you've counted back to the inlet cam and set it you will find that the inlet mark is 'lazy' ( slightly below the face of the head) as the cam cover with the guide is not fitted. You need to fit the cam cover before the tensioner.

No offence to Coose, but you don't need a dummy cam cover to set your cam timing unless you're working on a modified engine. For something with standard cam set up the method given by Kawasaki works fine, as one would expect.

Olly

[JimBoUK]

Thanks guys.
So are you saying I should move the exhaust cam forward one tooth and leave the inlet where it is so it will then be 45 pins back.
If I move them both forward to keep 44 teeth the inlet will be well advanced especially when the rocker cover guide is in place.

[Mr Bump]

You need to start again. Find tdc on no 1 cylinder. Set the exhaust cam position, ensuring that the timing chain run from the crank to the exhaust cam sprocket remains tight at all times, then recount the chain rivets to find the inlet cam position.

Get the exhaust cam timing right first.

If you can't get the exhaust cam timing to line up consider finding true tdc then positioning the ignition advancer correctly.

I did this on my gpz 11 engine about a month ago (though I did find true tdc with the head off, I'm not 100% sure how easy this would be through the plug holes but it should be doable) and the exhaust cam mark lined up perfectly. New chain fitted).

Olly

[Coose]

No offence to Coose, but you don't need a dummy cam cover to set your cam timing unless you're working on a modified engine. For something with standard cam set up the method given by Kawasaki works fine, as one would expect.

Olly

No offence taken.
My head has been skimmed by 0.5mm and has slotted cam sprockets, where not in the photo is the DTI in the plug hole to determine true TDC (as you suggested), a second DTI on the cam I was timing at the time, and the degree disc on the crank with a marker.

As you say you can get away without the top guide if using unslotted sprockets and a stock unskimmed head, but with the guide fitted you can at least make sure that the slots in the cams align correctly, and you don't run the risk of the inlet sprocket jumping teeth when you turn the motor over to recheck the timing.

[JimBoUK]

Thanks very much for the advice guys.
It’s all sorted.

I used a dial gauge in number 1 plug hole to find TDC. Then found there was a bit of play in the timing advancer.
Then I tweaked the position of the timing advancer so when the T mark lined up it was TDC.
After that I shifted each cam shaft clockwise by 1 pin and it all lines up
Just got to shim it and put the rocker cover back on then the engine rebuild is finished.

[JimBoUK]

This is where the T mark was when actually at TDC before I tweaked it

[scott]

How do i "save" this thread, lots of good advice that i will certainly need to use when re fitting my head with slotted sprockets etc.

Coose, you wouldnt happen to know the part number for the cam cover that you bought to modify? I presume it was a lot cheaper than a standard one?

[Skid Mark]

How do i "save" this thread, lots of good advice that i will certainly need to use when re fitting my head with slotted sprockets etc.

Coose, you wouldnt happen to know the part number for the cam cover that you bought to modify? I presume it was a lot cheaper than a standard one?

Snap!
The Spanner icon top and bottom of the page allows you to book mark the tread.

[scott]

Thank you kindly sir

[Coose]

Coose, you wouldnt happen to know the part number for the cam cover that you bought to modify? I presume it was a lot cheaper than a standard one?

Sorry Scott, I don't. But, with my bike being a US-spec Z1000J I chopped up the cover that I had and bought a UK cover instead.
The US covers come up for peanuts as nobody really wants them.
Or, if someone has a spare cracked cover (which isn't unheard of) you could chop one of those up.

[scott]

Thanks Coose.