Camchain rivet link - z1000 A1

[David32knyte]

Dear fellow members

I know this is generally frowned upon - BUT- I am fitting a DID open rivet link camchain to my 76 Z1000 A1.

I am refurbishing the whole top end.
Rebore, pistons & rings, all rollers & guides etc.
Already spend around £1K on parts!!

(I am starting a work contract in a week or so and I know if I split the cases it will be another 2 years before i get it back together !)
The previous chain looked like the original linkless item. Appeared within wear length limit - but could be 40 years old so I just swapped it for the new open chain.

The rivet pins on the rivet link are just plain ended (no depression as per the drive chain version)
Please see pics attached.

Does anyone know the correct way to close the ends of these pins?
So there's the usual lump hammer round the back and peen the ends over technique.
But presume there is a proper method.

I have a breaking / rivet tool - but this only seems to work with the pins that have the depression in the centre of the end face, allowing the end to be spread / mushroom outwards.

Any advice will be gratefully received, as always.

Best

David Weare
07956 347680

[DeadZedDave]

Hello David, I see you have no replies yet and you mention your time is limited !
Normal best advice is fit an endless chain but as you say you already have a split link type which your’e going to use.
I have no idea if anyone else on the forum will approve or disagree with the following method, HOWEVER, many years ago I used this method with good success to fit a split link cam chain on a Yamaha. That cam chain was very similar size / type to the early Zed cam chain
I can not guarantee this method but as I say, I did it once and it worked fine.
What I used was a NUT SPLITTER - a small “heavy duty G Clamp” style tool with a large ish bolt (10mm) through the “G” and a sharp chisel point on the front - normally used to clamp onto a SIEZED nut and split it open.
Using this tool, the principle is to neatly indent/ push the chisel edge to form a SMALL depression / crease in the head of the joining link pins. Don’t over do it - it’s just enough to spread the end of each pin by a minimal amount to secure the side plate. Do one pin at a time and be careful to make sure the side plates of the joining link are not pushed too far together - avoid creating a tight spot.
I would disregard any ideas about using a hammer !
As I say, absolutely NO GUARANTEES and if anyone else has a better idea then that’s fine with me !
Just to close with a question, if you’re off on contract for two years, presumably you won’t be riding the Zed until you get back anyhow ? Why not just be patient and fit an endless chain when you get back ?? I expect most people will argue that the endless chain is the best solution !

[zed1015]

The ends of those pins on the rivet link are soft and In the absence of the correct pin stakeing tool can be done with a ball pein hammer with the correct support on the fixed plate side.
I've done hundreds like that before the riveting tool was easily available.
You need to have a "feel" when doing this though and be wary not to go too far and create a tight link.

[ADRIAN H]

If you’re not confident in fitting the link perfectly yourself. You need to either fit an endless camchain or take the engine to someone who knows how to do the job.
I have always fitted endless cam chains. As I wouldn’t have the confidence to do it properly myself.
Good luck.

[Mr Bump]

I've fitted several camchains using open links over the years. Fitting an endless one is safest if it's practical to do so, but it's a lot of extra work.

I've closed the soft link successfully by positioning the open link on the exhaust sprocket, resting a lump hammer on the head and holding it hard up against the riveted side of the soft link to act as an anvil, then gently peening the rivet heads over using the round end of a smallish ball peen hammer. It doesn't have to be one brave strike, just tap it and frequently check how tight it seems to be.

Don't read this as 'definitely do it like this' but it's worked repeatedly for me, and I've never had one fail even after quite high miles (30k + on a gt 550).

Otherwise, I think you can buy the correct press tool, so buy one if you can.

Hope this helps,

Olly

Olly

[relisysxx]

Had the same problem when I rebuild my KTM Offroader (you can't use an endless chain as you need to cut the chain to get the cam out), in the end I took the whole engine to the dealer and got them to rivet the chain just for peace of mind as they had the proper tool for it and it literally took seconds to do.
On a positive note, if a split chain works ok on the KTM it'll be fine on your Zed .

[Kev1R]

When completed around 50000 miles I decided to fit an open rivet link camchain to my Z1R about 2010, and it did a good few thousand miles on it until sold in 2021. As zed1015 says the key bit is having the link fully supported on the fixed plate side before carefully tapping (with the ball side!) of a ball peen hammer. I think I did 2 or three taps at a time and kept checking to ensure the link was not getting too tight. I have no workshop facilities or technical expertise so I would say most anyone could do it.

[David32knyte]

Hello David, I see you have no replies yet and you mention your time is limited !
Normal best advice is fit an endless chain but as you say you already have a split link type which your’e going to use.
I have no idea if anyone else on the forum will approve or disagree with the following method, HOWEVER, many years ago I used this method with good success to fit a split link cam chain on a Yamaha. That cam chain was very similar size / type to the early Zed cam chain
I can not guarantee this method but as I say, I did it once and it worked fine.
What I used was a NUT SPLITTER - a small “heavy duty G Clamp” style tool with a large ish bolt (10mm) through the “G” and a sharp chisel point on the front - normally used to clamp onto a SIEZED nut and split it open.
Using this tool, the principle is to neatly indent/ push the chisel edge to form a SMALL depression / crease in the head of the joining link pins. Don’t over do it - it’s just enough to spread the end of each pin by a minimal amount to secure the side plate. Do one pin at a time and be careful to make sure the side plates of the joining link are not pushed too far together - avoid creating a tight spot.
I would disregard any ideas about using a hammer !
As I say, absolutely NO GUARANTEES and if anyone else has a better idea then that’s fine with me !
Just to close with a question, if you’re off on contract for two years, presumably you won’t be riding the Zed until you get back anyhow ? Why not just be patient and fit an endless chain when you get back ?? I expect most people will argue that the endless chain is the best solution !

Thanks for the reply. I am not on a contract for 2 years, but around 6 months.
But this bike has already been in crates for the last 3 years so determined to get it running around.
I only split it becase it had a weepy basse gasket, But that I suppose is how it always starts.

OK so no Thor style hammer swinging action. Agreed.
I have actually ordered a few spare DID marked rivet links from Z power. Although can't make out the ends & they're on Xmas hols still.
I can inly imagine DID has a closing method in mind when they manufactured this item.
So it's that recommended method I was hoping to use.
I suppose I could drill a small depression into the ends - similar to your nut splitter method.
Thanks again for your input.
David

[DeadZedDave]

vid, there's been quite a few more posts on this question since yesterday !
I clearly misread the bit about "2 years" and fully understand now !
Recognising there's been a lot of good advice from Forum members I also note that you latest post you say your'e looking for

"the recommended method" that "DID had in mind when they manufactured the item"

I can only guess myself how DID intended it done - I DON'T ACTUALLY KNOW (It could be worth a call to Z-Power ?) HOWEVER since my earlier post I've had a quick look on line and comment as follows:
My "Nut Splitter" method was something I got from a workshop manual - though I can't remember which one BUT THIS WAS 45 YEARS AGO ! If you look on line for a "Snap-on NC52" you'll see what I used ! Meantime I can see if I search on line for a cam chain join riveting tool or similar, there are a good number of items being sold as tools for that specific purpose. The point I'm making is that 45 years ago these dedicated tools were not readily available. Today, you can buy a dedicated tool for cam chain riveting for much less than the price of the nut splitter !
Getting back to how D.I.D. MIGHT have intended the job to be done - and I'm making an assumption here based on many years experience of the engineering business;

I fully expect DID would recommend some form of mechanical chain riveting tool. (perhaps D.I.D. sold such items ?)

There is some advice from the forum from members who have had the job done by a dealer / repairer using such a tool and it might be worthwhile to make a further/new post to ask if anyone knows / can recommend a specific chain rivet tool for a cam chain.

From my own perspective I would say that some of the tools offered on line appear to include "various" rivet forming heads and as you yourself already mentioned, the DID link has no indentation in the centre of the pins like some final drive chains have (I've never seen a cam chain link that did), SO a riveting head with a cup shaped head to gently mushroom over the end of the pin - or perhaps something that replicates the appearance of the DID pin riveting appearance (I cant see any tools that might do this)

Briefly to comment on the nut splitter again; it only takes the slightest of expansion of the end of the link pins to stop the side plate coming off - so we're definitely not talking about spliting the end of the pin - not even close HOWEVER, if you fon't already posess a nut splitter, either NC52 or similar this comment is probably irrelevant !

Clearly, with experience the job can be done most readily with a Lump hammer and a smaller ballpein hammer but also, clearly there is the chance to get it wrong !

Some form of mechanical device which can be tightened in over the head of each joining link pin to "deform" or "rivet / mushroom" over the end of the joining link pin would I think certainly provide a controlled method with less chance of damage / getting it wrong.

[Hack]

David, resurrecting your old post as I'm currently facing the same dilemma.

How did you resolve closing the cam chain rivet link?
Was it successful?

Thanks,
Andy

[David32knyte]

Hi Andy
Very sorry I did not reply sooner.
I parked the Z project after I rebuilt the thing Xmas 2023 and haven't checked the forum

However - I solved the problem by buying a new rivet link from Z power (I think) that came with the depression already in the pins.
So it was easy peasy to crush the ends over on the link.
Went together reasonably well after that. Haven't done loads of miles on the Z since then but runs fine.

Hope you managed to sort yours out
I have no idea how DID expected anyone to close the ends of the pins on the link supplied with the chain.
Seem unusable to me

D



[quote="Hack"]David, resurrecting your old post as I'm currently facing the same dilemma.

How did you resolve closing the cam chain rivet link?
Was it successful?

Thanks,
Andy[/quote]