Shim tolerance

[freddyz1r]

A4 cylinder head. Is this within tolerances?

[zed1015]

Thinnest shim avilable is 2mm and thickest stock is 3.2mm.
Thicker is better.
Most of yours are mostly mid range which is ok, especially the 2.65 to 2.9mm .
The 2.4 is heading for the lower end and ideally needs sorting and putting towards the higher end before it goes back together.
Personally i'd be tipping all the valves to get them as close to 3.2mm as possible.

[freddyz1r]

Thanks for the info Rob

[Gray17]

Afternoon Guys, I'm in the process of trying to do the valve clearences, all i can say is its far easier with the locking nut arangement! However these are my tolerances head on the bench no springs just camshafts in their bearings and measuring top of shim using feeler gauge, pushing valve fully home.
These are my results.
Exhaust
R/H 2.92mm shim - 0.05mm clearence
R/H centre 2.85mm shim - 0.02mm clearence
L/H ctr 2.82mm shim - 0.04mm clearence
L/H 2.77mm shim - 0.06mm clearence

Inlet
R/H 2.55mm shim - 0.04mm clearence
R/H ctr 2.60mm shim - 0.01mm clearence
L/H ctr 2.59mm shim - 0.01mm clearence
L/H 2.46mm shim - 0.08mm clearence
Ok so by my reckoning they all need slight adjustment.
As i understand it you need 0.10mm clearence or greater on inlet and exhaust so if in first exhaust is 0.05 and needs to be .1 then i need to remove 0.05 of the shim to bring it inline with coreect clearence is this correct?
Have a few questions,
1. if i set them all up on the head using bench method is it likely to change once i fit springs etc? I know it may after 500miles or so.
2. Am i better adjusting valve top or shim to give correct clearence as shims are quite large at mo, this gives more scope later on?
Anything else i need to know that would help a novice acomplish this?
Thanks

[zed1015]

Afternoon Guys, I'm in the process of trying to do the valve clearences, all i can say is its far easier with the locking nut arangement! However these are my tolerances head on the bench no springs just camshafts in their bearings and measuring top of shim using feeler gauge, pushing valve fully home.
These are my results.
Exhaust
R/H 2.92mm shim - 0.05mm clearence
R/H centre 2.85mm shim - 0.02mm clearence
L/H ctr 2.82mm shim - 0.04mm clearence
L/H 2.77mm shim - 0.06mm clearence

Inlet
R/H 2.55mm shim - 0.04mm clearence
R/H ctr 2.60mm shim - 0.01mm clearence
L/H ctr 2.59mm shim - 0.01mm clearence
L/H 2.46mm shim - 0.08mm clearence
Ok so by my reckoning they all need slight adjustment.
As i understand it you need 0.10mm clearence or greater on inlet and exhaust so if in first exhaust is 0.05 and needs to be .1 then i need to remove 0.05 of the shim to bring it inline with coreect clearence is this correct?
Have a few questions,
1. if i set them all up on the head using bench method is it likely to change once i fit springs etc? I know it may after 500miles or so.
2. Am i better adjusting valve top or shim to give correct clearence as shims are quite large at mo, this gives more scope later on?
Anything else i need to know that would help a novice acomplish this?
Thanks

Yes! They are all too tight and need to be as close to 0.15mm as possible .
A touch over is ok if that's where the next shim takes you so better 0.17mm than 0.12mm.
Shims are in increments of 0.05mm so some of your shim thicknesses are off or measured incorrectly so the calcs for fresh shims need adjusting to suit.
With springs etc fitted the clearances will close slightly as they pull the valve tighter up to the seats than finger pressure and after a few miles they certainly will once the valves and re-cut seats settle in.
While the head is off i would take the opportunity to bring the installed heights as close to 37mm as possible if further tipping allows to accuire the maximum shim thickness possible.
Doing it now will save work and gain mileage further down the line.

[Gray17]

Thanks for info Rob, I have to say this def looks easier then it actually is. First im guessing if you've done loads of these it becomes 2nd nature. For me its a 1st and can well understand why Shaun ended up sending his away to be done. However i have fully dismantled the head again and rechecked all the shim sizes which are as Rob said on the back. For some reason my digital calliper doesnt give same reading though but guess thats just an accuracy issue. Some are also marked with an A on the end?
Anyway now i know what the shim sizes are and i know what clearences i need and to err on the loose side as once running it will quickly reduce the gap.
My shims are either top end ie nearer 3mm or in the middle, also tips are all large enough to trim.
I've therefore elected to trim the valve tip, as i dont have a boat load of shims to play with and only 2 can be swopped for what i need. I could use the forum option but that means sending them away and not convinced my measurements will be correct, could end up back and forth with post which at moment is terrible least in this area!
Anyway getting back to the valve tips.
Theres very little info out there on this, but what there is basically you use either a purpose built valve machine costing thousands or a bench grinder which i have which also has course and fine wheels.
Sounds simple the issue is how to get the valve at 90 deg to the wheel to ensure the tip is square and doesnt move but still able to rotate. Some use Vblocks and suggest using face of wheel but thats curved so surely would grind it off square.
The side of my wheel seems better as only going to be pressing lightly and taking small amount off. So im thinking of something that i can fix to the grinder on the side, drill a 7mm hole through using bench drill which will hold the valve at the correct angle without moving but still allow rotation and quick release to the next one. It means a bit of to and fro in as you will have to grind the stem then go and check the clearence each time.
Really not convinced shims are the best way to go its fiddly, expensive and would have been far simpler with the industry standard adjustable method. Guess its Kawasakis answer to ensure bike was maintained by dealers, rather then owners!
Will keep you posted how i get along unless i just give up or loose the minimal remains of my hair!!!!
Incidentally a guide would be good fir all us novices, if any experts have one available, saw one on KZ forum but the videos now been removed?, google search comes up with very little, the manuals skip over it, but mainly telling you to swop shims as needed, fine if uv loads available but not for the diyer on a 1 off basis.
Theres got to be an easier way????
Update:
Well pressed ahead with valve jig fixed to grinder using L brackets, set up using try square and level then drilled 7mm hole 90 degrees using pillar drill. Checked valve its a snug but tightish fit.
Then started grinder using fine wheel edged tip just enough till it was touching, then using light pressure turned valve with fingers to ensure full tip was ground, then edged tip edge 45deg with diamond file to gwt rid of any burring, finally finished with wet and dry.
Took back and tried in head just a touch too much taken off, luckily had next shim up on next valve so swopped them. Spot on! Gone slightly less then 0.1mm manual recomends as per Robs info as know they close up once bedded. All inlets now done.
Just got exhausts to do now, best of all no new shims needed!!!
Believe me you barely have to use any pressure at all, so be aware if you decide to have a go yourself.
If i was doing this a lot, I'd make amendment to jig with a fine threaded stud to press valve head, rather then finger pressure. So i can gauge the pressure more accurately.
I know some may cringe at my methods but it works.
Of course proof of the pudding when i finally get it back together and running so watch this space.

[Mikekilbride]

Hi Guys
Got my Z1 head back from the guys at head work Warrington. I told them to set the clearance to 0.002 as it shows int the Haynes manual. But after all the work done and running for a while the bike starts with plenty of power from cold but when she warms up it drops to 3 cyls and really lacks power. I've balanced the carbs, new plugs etc great spark etc.

Im wondering if there might be a typo in the Haynes manual. What thou or mm should they be please

[warren3200gt]

Haynes make an error, surley not

From the khi manual but even that was corrected after the first edition to 0.08 to 0.18. I would rather be 0.2 than 0.15

You can download a kawasaki workshop manual from Z power foc.


[attachment=0]Screenshot_20230713_181329_Samsung Notes.jpg[/attachment]

[zed1015]

Hi Guys
Got my Z1 head back from the guys at head work Warrington. I told them to set the clearance to 0.002 as it shows int the Haynes manual. But after all the work done and running for a while the bike starts with plenty of power from cold but when she warms up it drops to 3 cyls and really lacks power. I've balanced the carbs, new plugs etc great spark etc.

Im wondering if there might be a typo in the Haynes manual. What thou or mm should they be please

That 2 thou is too tight.
They need to be set at 6 thou ( 0.15mm ) from the start.
4 thou ( 0.10mm) is MINIMUM clearance and should never be set at that.
2 to 4 thou ( .05mm to .10mm ) are the old figures which were quickily revised due to instances of valve seat burning..

Once set on a fresh valve job the valves will settle in their seats and the shims will need re checking after a few miles .
You will need to re shim the head with shims at least two sizes down from what is currently installed.

[Mikekilbride]

Thanks for that i will give that a go and re-post results ASAP

[Mikekilbride]

Haynes make an error, surley not

From the khi manual but even that was corrected after the first edition to 0.08 to 0.18. I would rather be 0.2 than 0.15

You can download a kawasaki workshop manual from Z power foc.


Screenshot_20230713_181329_Samsung Notes.jpg

Thanks for this Mike

[zed1015]

Haynes make an error, surley not

From the khi manual but even that was corrected after the first edition to 0.08 to 0.18. I would rather be 0.2 than 0.15

You can download a kawasaki workshop manual from Z power foc.


Screenshot_20230713_181329_Samsung Notes.jpg

Thanks for this Mike

That 0.18mm was for the later GPZ1100 unitrack which has higher lift cams and sportier engine spec which consequentially produces more heat that results in a greater expansion of the valve gear.
It's a little on the wide side for stock cams in the lower spec 903/1015 engines.
It won't really do any harm but it will be noisier.
The revison for the 903cc/1015cc engines was 0.10mm to 0.15mm.

[warren3200gt]

Also 650, 8 - 18.