Twisted but where?

[moizeau]

Ever since getting the ST home a few years ago I realised the frame or yokes were twisted. I've lived with it for a couple of years but now it needs new boots I'd like to try to narrow it down.
Bit of background info:
The front wheel sits to the left by 1.5 inches when a straight edge is offered up to the rear tyre and wears the rhs.
The bike has had a large hit at some point. When I got it, it had Yam clocks and handlebars, a Mk2 tail fin. It has an E1 engine in an E2 frame (possibly due to other reasons). It had 1 engine bar fitted and 1 in a bag of bits....snapped in half. The sidestand has had a 'foot' welded to the base ( I believe the ST's sidestand is slightly longer than some of the others so maybe that is a Mk2 also).
The condition of the frame is rusty and poor yet the forks are really quite tidy.
I know the forks are straight because when I rebuilt them I did a roll test with my foot on the stanchion and the top of the fork tubes ran true. The tubes also fit through the bottom yoke and into the top one nice and easily. I'm hoping it's bent yokes but fearing headstock. There is no visual damage anywhere on the frame that I can see. The swing arm has had new bearings (set up as per the WM) and there is no play in the headstock bearings. The other thing that is slighly odd is that the speedo drive only just locates in it's groove in the fork, like 2mm.
I was thinking about setting a spirit level up just behind the tank, getting it level then laser levelling the headstock for verticalness (if that's a word) and the top and bottom yoke for horizontalness.
I can't check the swing arm with it being a shafty.
The rear tyre does seem to sit quite close to the driven side, 1cm to the tyre at it's smallest point.
With a straight edge along the disks the gap to the front tyre is equal both sides.

I realise this a long post but wanted to include as much info as possible.
The nearest frame place to me is Paris, so 3 1/2 hours.Just want to get an idea of where it could be and would DIY check be worth it or are there better methods without stripping the bike too much?
Thanks for your patience.
Any advice gratefully received.

[warren3200gt]

If it were me Peter I'd be looking to get it exactly upright using the engine ( mid point of the bike) sitting perfectly upright on a good steady footing checking it with a plumb line in several points to ensure its perfectly veticle.
Once that's achieved you can easily check front and rear tyre Contact points with the road are in line with a Lazer and if they still in the veritcle plane with a plumb line.
It'll narrow down what's twisted and where but I suspect it'll be the head stock given its the closest point on the frame to a head on collision.

[moizeau]

Cheers Warren, when you say use the engine, I can vertically laser the fins on the outside of the crank casings or use the ally mag and ignition covers where they mate to the engine. I suppose it doesn't matter to much really or were you thinking over somewhere else? I could possibly get the laser to pick up the horizontal cylinder fins?

[warren3200gt]

Yeah, to ensure the engine is veticle I just hang a plumb line off the middle front cam cover bolt and you will see if its veticle or not as the line should be equidistant left and right from multiple points on the barrels and top and bottom crank case cooling fins.

[moizeau]

Did an initial check in the garden on a concrete pad. confirmed verticalness of engine.

Then checked the rear wheel

Needed to check the front end, partially stripped to moved it into the garage

Check on the rear wheel from the front

Than ran the laser down the spine using the headstock and front tube as a datum looking at the
rear

Then the reverse using the rear of the frame to the petrol tank rear mount/bolted on cross brace as a datum

Close up of the headstock from th e last test

So it's fooked.
4 choices
1 - stick a new tyre on and run as is, I'm used to it and it's not a race machine.
2 - Get the frame straightened. We have a racetrack down the road that runs 'run what you brung' on Wednesdays and a lad you runs a local car spares place who does motoX. If anyone needs a frame straightener, someone should know.
3 - Take a 600 mile round trip south east of Lyon on the off chance that one of the frames are good (mentioned in Bert's post) He only has a log book for one of them though.
4 - Split it and sell for bits but I really don't want to do that.

The downside in France with replacing a frame is that you buy the logbook so need to add 240€ for the management....Ron

I'll know more Wednesday after speaking, hopefully, to some people in the know.

How much, out of interest, would it cost in the UK to straighten a frame....roughly? I realise it depends on the extent of the damage.

[z1bman]

https://www.motoliner.com/prices.php

[Al]

Hi, Pete i have straightened out two at home. Mine and an 1100R. I would offer caution when using the engine position as a datum for any measurements as neither of the two i mentioned where anywhere near correct when first measured.
Dont know if it helps by i use the free clinometer app on my phone for both bikes and for building car bodies. Its very good and very versatile.
Ignore the readings its sitting on its side stand.
I use a short spirit level just because its a convenient straight edge; horizontally off the front engine mounting structure, sticking out the side and again on the side of the wheels. Put the phone up against this to read whats what.
You should be able to detect a discrepency between the front and back wheels if all not well.
I have straightened a big bend in the back of mine once with a massive piece of 4x3 and another with the portapower at work!

AL

[moizeau]

Thanks both. I was thinking a do at home version Al. I was worried about using the engine and the laser lines seem to contradict each other. Were you looking for wheel alignment as a priority?

[zed1015]

I'd be careful if using the engine as a datum for the center of the bike.
If the ST is like all the earlier bikes the engine sits around 6mm to the right from new.

[Z1streetfighter71]

Has the steering stem defiantly been eliminated from the scenario? it would take quite a bit of force to tweak shaft frame by the looks of my own.

P.s i have a laser and a bare Z1000st frame if measurements are needed. ( i refrained from using the word "shaft" there)

[moizeau]

I wasn't looking to centralise the frame from the engine, just to make sure it vertical Rob, though the engine cradle could be buggered so that would throw that out of the equation.
Regarding the twist, It looks like it's bent in the middle and the headstock is also twisted. Just going by the laser, so not in an engineering environment.
Thanks

[Al]

Were you looking for wheel alignment as a priority?

Yes, not fore and aft as its adjustable that way unlike the ST; vertically at the front wheel and vertically at the back wheel.
I'm OCD with things like that and it was un-even so needed doing. The portapower exercise was to do with the fact that in common with many first year J's, it had had the front sprocket fall off and it had bent the cross tube beneath it and pulled the back engine mounting point round. You just have to be creative and you can use the portapower to pull as well as push.
If you can measure a difference, that is the problem that needs adressing.
Doesnt matter what numbers you get, its comparitive so there is no right and wrong.
Is it an optical illusion or are the two front mudguard mounts at different heights?
AL

[moizeau]

Ta, yes it's an an optical illusion. I was looking at the headstock, the forks must have turned slightly

[moizeau]

Al. is this the one you use?
https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... l=en&gl=US
Cheers

[Al]

It was this one, dont know if thats different from the link you posted. I think they all do a similar thing. Mine is an Android phone.
My mate uses a Wixey and swears by it, but i like the free-ness of the phone version
https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... l=en&gl=US

AL