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ST recommission

Work in Progress

Moderators: chrisu, paul doran, Taffus, KeithZ1R

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moizeau
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Posts: 97
Joined: 3rd May 2019
Location: France

Re: ST recommission

#61 PostAuthor: moizeau » Tue Jun 18, 2019 8:36 pm

A small update.
Ignition timing spot on as expected. No. 3 carb was running rich, couldn't get it off yellow on 'colortune'. So carbs back off.
Checked the float heights using an improvised tool
PICT0161.JPG

Picture quality is crap, but it's a gas cooker jet with a 3mm hole bored through the centre. I wouldn't like to use it with the carbs on the bike, but separated and held in a vice it did the job.
Whilst stripping the carbs I took note of all the sizes for the 'brass bits'. The mains are 130 instead of 110, I expected something there due to the pipes, everything else is stock.
I also measured all the O rings and the bores/pistons and am going to put together an o ring carb rebuild list. After all the brass bits can be cleaned. I do know off the top of my head that for the choke plunger a 7,94 x 1.78 fits a treat.(I have a few from a Lucas Epic fuel pump rebuild)
This time they were completely stripped, mounting and all.
If they're clean on the inside, why not make them clean on the outside?
PICT0160.JPG

Physical sync done with some mig wire and back on.
3rd kick (I haven't got a battery bigger than 4ah at the moment) and she started, ticked over and everything.
Next job, mixtures, 'colortune' out, all carbs now bunsen blue...nice.
Mercury next. Stunned, only no. 4 needed adjusting after the original static set up. All within 1,5cm...nice.
Time for a run, no popping, no farting, clean on low end and accelerates through to 10 without issue.
This is with no air filters.
Put the them on and it bogs after 7000.
I set the carbs with no filters because I don't know the consistency between the 4, none is better than an unknown. From this I think the mains are possibly oversized and/or the filters are shite (the latter I already know).


Stuff still stuck in customs.......
but cheers, Mark for the manual, and Philippe for the offer of the airbox.
Front pads should be here for the weekend......

If I've bored you unsubscribe to my posts :oh
Cheers all
A+
Pete

moizeau
Regular Poster
Posts: 97
Joined: 3rd May 2019
Location: France

Re: ST recommission

#62 PostAuthor: moizeau » Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:24 pm

Went for a run out today for the first time. It accelerates lovely but the engine 'flutters' below 3500rpm. Makes no difference whether the cone filters are on or not.
The carbs have larger mains but stock needle in the no. 3 position. I'm thinking to raise the e clip on the needle a slot (drop the needle)? It should be off the pilot system at 3500, so the needle is coming into play?
Could someone verify this please?
I'd love to ditch the exhaust and go back to standard (or standardish) but finances won't stretch at the moment.
The HT leads aren't great, do these unscrew from the coils the same as they do from the HT cap so they can be replaced?
All replies gratefully received.
Cheers
A+
Pete

Philippe
ZedHead
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Location: België

Re: ST recommission

#63 PostAuthor: Philippe » Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:59 am

Hi Pete
I can't give you any clues about rising or lowering the circlips on the needles, I have no experience with that.
The only thing I can say: don't ride too long without air filters. I don't think the engine will run fine that way.
About the HT leads: if there's a plastic cap on the coil where the HT lead goes into the coil, you can unsrew those caps and afterwards the leads can be replaced.
If there's a rubber cap where the leads go into the coils, they can't be unscrewed, they're fixed.
Your ST is an E2 so I think your HT leads can be replaced although you don't know if the original coils are stil mounted...
Put a picture of the coils on the forum so it's clear what kind of coils you have.
GrtZ
Philippe
the differences between a little boy and an adult man is the price and size of their toys!

moizeau
Regular Poster
Posts: 97
Joined: 3rd May 2019
Location: France

Re: ST recommission

#64 PostAuthor: moizeau » Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:10 pm

Cheers Philippe, rubber caps, bugger. It's only no. 4 lead that's a bit chewed. I'll see if I've got room to cut it back a bit. Failing that I seem to remember a 'joiner'' that's like a double ended plug cap connector.
It was only running filterless for testing purposes.

Cheers
A+
Pete

moizeau
Regular Poster
Posts: 97
Joined: 3rd May 2019
Location: France

Re: ST recommission

#65 PostAuthor: moizeau » Wed Nov 27, 2019 5:13 pm

Been a while. Small improvements have been made. As I said at the start it was always going to get ridden this year, once safe.
Fitted a rear tank rubber, not a big job but the tank is a little more secure now. Fitted a proper battery so the kick start is now tucked away. Fitted a new fuel tap disc so it turns off completely when the engine is off. Fitted a standard air box ( thanks Philippe) and new rubbers. Got some float bowl gaskets and 115 mains ( Thanks Dave). Made a jig on the wall so the carbs can be mounted as a block, fed from a sit on mower fuel tank. I used 2 bits of 40mm waste pipe (French 40 not UK), cut a couple of slots and glued then into a sheet of splinter board. No. 1 and 4 carbs slot in and can be jubilee clipped to secure them. Then used the float height tool ( Thanks Warren) to confirm all is good. The advantage of my jig is that I noted the fuel heights, emptied the carbs, removed them then turned them upside down and remounted them in order to remove the float bowls and adjust the tangs. This way the floats, pins and valves can be removed easily without having to wedge the bank of carbs against something on the bench.
Refitted the carbs and went for a spin. It's a different bike. Ticks over nicer, pulls from low range smoother and revs through the range with no hesitation at all It's the first time it's been over 80mph without having to coax the throttle. Hit 120, chuffed. The original mains were 0.2mm diameter larger.
It's currently sitting in the barn with the swing arm removed, new bearings going in tomorrow.
I've got to revisit the front end, somethings not right, the wheels aren't in line. I'm hoping it's the yokes. I know the forks are straight, if not....I've got a twisted frame.
While I'm here boring you, a quick question. I've got very furry gold wheels. Although I'm not ready to strip it down the bones, the wheels could be done easily. What's the best way to remove the old paint. I'd like to go black and read somewhere on here that a Wurth rattle can gives good results. Also what's the easiest way to mask the bits that I want to keep ally, putty or tape?

Oh, and just waiting for my clocks to arrive, be interesting to see how much work needs doing, 2 speedos and a rev counter for 50 euros, I've got the back plate and the idiot light rear part, but not the front, thought I had, anyone got one?

A+
Pete

Philippe
ZedHead
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Location: België

Re: ST recommission

#66 PostAuthor: Philippe » Thu Nov 28, 2019 6:33 am

Hi Pete
glad to hear that your ST rides good!
The best way to remove the old paint from the wheels is to strip them completely (tire, air valve and bearings) and "wash off" the old paint with cellulose thinner.
Do it outside or you'll get dizzy from the fumes! Give the cellulose thinner the time to do it's work: dissolving the paint.
Use some "scotch brite" sponge to make little scratches in the old paint, the thinner will work faster.
Once the gold paint is off, use rotative nylon brushes (first the red ones, afterwards the blue ones) in a drill to remove the old original black paint. Don't use them on the wheelrim that you want to keep in its alloy colour.
Polish the rim and the edges of the "spokes" to a bright alloy colour.
TAPE off the parts where you don't want paint! Use a hobby knife with a new sharp blade to cut off the excess tape. It's a long and boring job but you'll be rewarded by the end result!
The paint should be satin black, not glossy! I use a two component paint and a spraygun.
If you want to protect the shiny alloy parts from oxidating too fast, use a clear coat to protect them. Restom, a French brand, has a very good clear coat for alloys. You can easily use a small brush to apply it. Before applying the clear coat, clean the alloy with aceton, you have to degrease it thoroughly in order for the clear coat to adhere completely.
If you want to work in this way, you'll be busy for a few weeks...but the results will be great!
Good luck.
GrtZ
Philippe
the differences between a little boy and an adult man is the price and size of their toys!

moizeau
Regular Poster
Posts: 97
Joined: 3rd May 2019
Location: France

Re: ST recommission

#67 PostAuthor: moizeau » Thu Nov 28, 2019 1:28 pm

Cheers Philippe.
Just pressed the new bearings, all greased up, in to the swing arm, about to throw it back in and have now have a question. The UJ on the prop shaft looks very clean, no excess play etc. but...does it need a coat of grease? I imagine it will get flung everywhere but... I've checked the manual at it just mentions the splines, not the joint, any advice out there please?
Cheers
Pete

myklexfox
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Posts: 14
Joined: 29th Oct 2019
Location: Redditch

Re: ST recommission

#68 PostAuthor: myklexfox » Thu Nov 28, 2019 6:48 pm

Hi Moizeau

I know im a newbie here, but having an ST with 125,000 miles (not km) on the clock, changing the prop shaft at 80,000 miles with a 2nd hand one, I never put any oil on the universal joint. Just taken the shaft out after it sitting for 20 year in the garage and the UJ still moves totally freely. Hope that helps

M :)

moizeau
Regular Poster
Posts: 97
Joined: 3rd May 2019
Location: France

Re: ST recommission

#69 PostAuthor: moizeau » Thu Nov 28, 2019 6:59 pm

Cheers M, that's what was puzzling me. It moves beautifully, I can see a very small amount of grease inside, but it looks very clean. With the work it does I was just unsure whether it needs lube, though there are no grease nipples.
Newbie, old boy, doesn't matter, everyone learns. Good luck with yours, mines done about 60K in miles I reckon but had a hard life and been thrown down the road...twice I reckon.
Pete

myklexfox
new poster
Posts: 14
Joined: 29th Oct 2019
Location: Redditch

Re: ST recommission

#70 PostAuthor: myklexfox » Thu Nov 28, 2019 7:15 pm

:) Just remembering, but being near Birmingham most of my old bike mates worked in engineering. A couple worked for Hardy Spicer who made drive shafts for the car industry, I seem to remember them saying that the bearings in the UJ's are all sealed units so therefore no lubrication. Don't take this as gospel but I think it is correct.

Luckily I know most off the history of mine having had it for so long, did have one minor bumps & some t**t knocked it over backing a van up which broke the fins around pot 4 plug, but that is about it. Glad to see you are running & hopefully get all the relatively minor final issues sorted out :)

M

Philippe
ZedHead
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Location: België

Re: ST recommission

#71 PostAuthor: Philippe » Fri Nov 29, 2019 3:43 pm

Hi Pete
I never lubricated the universal joint of the shaft. I only put copper grease on the splines as described in the shop manual.
About your front fork: did you mount it in the correct way?
Don't forget that you don't tighten the bolts of the lower yoke before you've tightened the one on the upper yoke and pushed in the front fork a few times. That way the fork "sets" , afterwards you can fasten the bolts of the lower yoke.
I suppose you changed the old tapered bearings for new ones...did you fasten the two special nuts on top correctly?
Not to loose but not too tight. You can check it by lifting the front wheel and pulling the forklegs towards you. If there's play on the tapered bearings you'll feel it and you need to tighten the two special nuts. If you want to know if the two nuts are not too tight: raise the front wheel, put it straight and give a little tap on one end of the handlebar, the handlebar must move gently and the stops on the lower yoke must touch the stop on the central frame tube.
It's a matter of "feeling". I hope you can solve the problem.
GrtZ
Philippe
the differences between a little boy and an adult man is the price and size of their toys!

moizeau
Regular Poster
Posts: 97
Joined: 3rd May 2019
Location: France

Re: ST recommission

#72 PostAuthor: moizeau » Fri Nov 29, 2019 4:45 pm

Cheers, no grease then. I'll get that back in tomorrow and re check the front end. Everything seemed to go together properly and easily first time round. The thing that concerns me about the frame possibly being bent is having seen the damage when I bought the bike. The RH engine guard was snapped off so it must have gone down quite heavily. Also I'm sure the engine doesn't sit symmetrically in the frame. No 4 spark plug sits outboard further than No 1 and the downpipe for No 1 almost touches the frame. I'll know more tomorrow once the back end is back in and the front end confirmed.
In the meantime I got my clocks today. All of them have been taken a part. I've got 1 decent speedo now mounted on the back plate, the other will go back together as a spare. The rev counter clock face is superb but the fuel gauge, I think is knackered. I'll take a picture tomorrow and post it. There's a little plate that I think should be connected to the needle that isn't.
More feedback tomorrow, hopefully with the odd answer.
A+
Pete

moizeau
Regular Poster
Posts: 97
Joined: 3rd May 2019
Location: France

Re: ST recommission

#73 PostAuthor: moizeau » Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:31 am

Back end done, front end checked, wheels still out of line. I'm going to have to get the headlight and tank off and send a cross beam laser down the bike.
In the meantime. Does anyone know what this is supposed to look like?
IMG_2626.JPG
IMG_2626.JPG (110.63 KiB) Viewed 54 times
IMG_2625.JPG
IMG_2625.JPG (103.59 KiB) Viewed 54 times

The metal strip under the 'half full' line that is connected by 2 wires is flapping about. I presume it shouldn't?
Thanks in advance, The rest of the tacho is in really good nick.
Pete


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